Duty handgun question

[autonomous]

I recently started working as an armed guard. Since the handgun I use is considered for defensive use only the company I work for will let me use any gun I choose. Right now I carry a CZ75 B because It's what I have but conventional wisdom seems to be that safeties should be avoided on duty guns.

I am looking for some advice on what is the best course of action. Should I...

Practice intensively with turning the safety off while drawing from the holster?

Switch to a decocker, no safety model and practice intensively with it? (Edit: If I switched It would be the decocker model of the CZ75 BD)

PS please don't make this a gun X is superior to gun Y thread or tell me to get a striker fired pistol.

 

[Spats McGee]

Welcome to THR, autonomous!

Do you like the CZ 75B? If so, I'm going with "practice with that one." (Please bear in mind that I'm not a security guard, not a LEO, nor former military, etc. . . . ) Anyway, practicing is cheaper than buying a new gun. While I don't own any CZs, I hear they're pretty good guns.

 

[autonomous]

I do like the CZ75. I'm very accurate with it and It fits my large hands well. If I switched to something else It would be a Decocker version of the CZ75.

 

[CZ9shooter]

Why not just practice with and carry the B model hammer down. Forget the saftey is even there. Functionally it will be the same as the BD. Unless you dont like manyal decocking, I get that.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Ya just stick with the 75b and carry hammer down.

 

[JTQ]

Why not just practice with and carry the B model hammer down.

That's what I'd do.

 

[MedWheeler]

Virtually all cops who carry, or have carried, DA/SA pistols equipped with manual safeties have done so (or currently do so) with the safety off and the hammer at rest (down.) I did.

Though I am no longer in LE, when I do carry a DA/SA pistol (usually a Ruger P95, Soviet Makarov, or Bersa Thunder), that's how I carry it.

You can learn to safely decock your pistol, even without a decock lever. Once the hammer is at rest, simply leave it there.

 

[autonomous]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll look into manual decocking.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I carried a SA/DA 5906 with the decocker up as a duty gun for almost 10 years. Training made decocking before holstering second nature.

 

[rcmodel]

conventional wisdom seems to be that safeties should be avoided on duty guns.

I would be unconventional then.

Safety's have saved a lot of cops lives over the years during gun grabs or gun struggles because the BG was too stupid to take the safety off after he had control of the gun.

And tell it to a Colt 1911 guy that a manual safety slows them down one fraction of a second out of the leather.

If you are unwilling or unable to practice with your gun to use the manual safety under stress?

Buy a Glock and hope you or someone else doesn't shoot you with it.

rc

 

[herrwalther]

Be very thankful that your security company lets you carry what you are most comfortable with. With my limited employment with private security, I was issued a beat up S&W 64. Being used to semi-autos, it was a learning curve.

Many discount the importance of practice and muscle memory. Safety or not, if you train enough it will become second nature. Weapons with no manual safeties or passive safeties are easier to learn on. That being said I prefer DA/SA weapons for carry and duty when given the choice.

 

[Lucky Derby]

First welcome.
I have 17+ years of experience doing armed security work, in your neck of the woods no less. Sacto. For 12 of those years, I supervised a force of up to 13 armed S/Os.
Anyway, I will echo what has been said, simply decock your CZ and carry hammer down, or practice and get comfortable cocked and locked. The great thing about your gun is it's one of a few that has the option to do either.
Also, please make sure you have a good retention holster, and know how to draw from it.

 

[AustinTX]

Why not just practice with and carry the B model hammer down. Forget the saftey is even there. Functionally it will be the same as the BD. Unless you dont like manyal decocking, I get that.

Joining the chorus to agree with this.

 

[TestPilot]

Let me make this easy for you.

What mode do you intend to fire the first shot with?

 

[ritepath]

CZ p-07....the only way to go. Of course the P-09 is a great 19+1 option.



I suppose the best news is you don't have to give up carrying a CZ.

 

[L-2]

Congratulations on having a gun-carrying job/career in California. We need good people carrying guns.

"Conventional wisdom" doesn't call for any particular safety/action type on your duty gun.
At this point, it's entirely up to you as to what type of handgun to carry.
You've decided to carry the CZ75B (da/sa w/thumb safety) and that's fine.
I have no problems or preferences as to either of your desired guns.
Apparently, you've narrowed the choice down to either the "B" model or the "BD" model.
I just want you to be totally competent & confident in your choice.

You're actually lucky in that you can choose.
Some agencies might mandate a Glock or SIG "DAK" (no thumb safeties at all).
Some are using the older S&W models which incorporate the decocker and safety (S&W 4006 as the CA Highway Patrol is still using). Some agencies may be mandated or not to carry with the safety engaged.
And other agencies are commonly issuing a SIG da/sa (decocker only).
The S&W M&P pistols can be had with or without a manual safety, but with the manual safety versions, it would be similar to carrying a 1911 w/hammer back (condition 1?), and some agencies are allowing the 1911, too.

In summary, you need to practice with what you're carrying. If you want to change, then change. Then practice with that gun, hundreds, leading to thousands of holster draws and trigger presses, even if dry-firing as I know ammo & time gets expensive.

With your present gun, I believe it can be carried either hammer down (safety on/off) or cocked & locked (safety on). That's another choice you will need to make.

There is no industry "conventional wisdom". The wisdom is to be totally competent in what you ARE carrying.

 

[mgmorden]

For a duty gun I wouldn't hesitate to use the CZ-75. Personally if I had no gun and needed to get a brand new one my personal preference would go to an M&P, but having owned both the CZ-75 will certainly serve that role just fine as well.

As a matter of fact I'd wager that almost any full-sized gun from a good manufacturer will perform about the same if you ever have to use it. In that regard which one you have doesn't matter a lot as lot as you're familiar with it. Most of the differences between them honestly won't make much difference by the time you're up to pulling the trigger.

 

[Skribs]

Use what works best for you. There are pros and cons to having a safety. I would not want one if it wasn't going to be used, though. So if you want to carry hammer down, safety off, I would get a DA/SA with decocker and no safety or get DAO.

Personally, I would go striker fired I know you said not to suggest it but they are nice for carry.

 

[golden]

Go with the cz-75 decocker

AUTONOMOUS,

I used to own a CZ-75 when I was outside the U.S. and liked it EXCEPT FOR THE POOR SAFETY DESIGN.

If I bought another one, it would be the CZ-75BD with the decocker. The lack of decocker is a safety issue, even if some people like the cocked and locked option.
That option is ONLY WORTHWHILE IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE IT and carry the CZ 75 cocked and locked.
Otherwise, it just increases the chance of an accidental discharge. When I worked under the U.S. Department of Justice, they forbid manual safeties. You could carry a SIG with decocker, GLOCK without any manual safety or even a WALTHER P88 which combined the decocker with slide release.

From personal experience, I can say the lack of a decocker is a safety issue. I was lowering the hammer on a BERETTA and it slipped and fired. Fortunately, I had done everything else right. I had the gun pointed downrange and my finger did not get sliced, but it was a good reminder, that things can go wrong. I my experience, manually lowering a hammer is just an accident waiting to happen.

Jim

 

[autonomous]

Hey guys there is a lot of really good points you brought up that I hadn't though of.

I hadn't considered the safety working in my favor if I loose my gun in a struggle. I have a level 2 blade tech duty holster but If the bad guy knows what he is doing he could probably get it out in a struggle. I'll probably practice with the safety for this reason above all else.

p07 and p09 are not on the CA approved list other wise I would have gotten one long ago.

 

[WYO]

I think that some consideration needs to be given to the holster as well because the gun and the holster together make a system. Some holsters have retention features that require manipulation that could make it more difficult to disengage a thumb safety. Some may have features that make the thumb safety less necessary. I have a friend who saved his own life in a gun grab by flicking on the safety when he knew he was going to lose it. The bad guy pointed the gun at his face and kept pulling the static trigger as my friend pulled his backup.

 

[bikerdoc]

I sit here with 75B on my hip safety on, flipping the safety off on the draw is a skill worth learning.

 

[Crayfish]

I agree with WYO on the holster being integral to a duty carry. My duty gun was a S&W 4506 with a decocker/safety and a mag release safety. Decocker had to be off when carrying or you would get a stern talking to, gun had to be pull and fire ready always. When we went into and out of the jail we had to unload and lockup our sidearms and the decocker was nice for reloading with the mag +1 (still had the barrel full of sand to point the gun in). Triple retention holster was to prevent gun grabs and we were trained to hit the mag release if we thought we were going to lose the gun in a struggle just to buy time to get to the backup. If you don't know the holster requires the gun to be pushed down and forward before pulling out but, it gets very fast with practice.

 

[Rob G]

I have multiple handguns I occasionally carry or keep around the house. Some have safeties. Some don't. On the ones that do some I carry with the safety on and others I don't. But in the case of every single weapon that I keep for self protection I have practiced extensively with it and am familiar and proficient with whatever safety devices it may have. I've never had any difficulty switching among the various weapons and don't find myself measurably faster or slower with any of them.

My advice then is this. Find a gun that you like, that you shoot well, that meets your needs, and is absolutely reliable. Practice drawing and shooting until you are completely proficient with that weapon and all its controls. Then be happy you own the most awesome pistol on the planet.

 

[JDR]

Autonomous;
As a licensed and certified armed security guard in CA, you had to first pass a 14 hour training course (8 hrs. Classroom, 6 hrs. range) to get your Firearms License. I'm assuming you used your 75B to pass the range training part of the couse, so what did the instructor tell you as far as the proper condition of carry for your CZ, to comply with the California BSIS regulations? The way I'm reading the regs online, don't you have to engage the safety on a 75B to carry it legally? Since the 75B safety doesn't engage with the gun decocked, you might have to carry it Condition 1, cocked & locked to stay within the regs. So I would argue that in order to carry a CZ decocked, it might be a good idea to carry a "BD" model.