Eeee-vil Black Shotguns?

[Elmer Snerd]

Do you owners of Eeee-vil Black Shotguns at THR get the same disdain and suspicion from onlookers that the owners of Eeee-vil Black Rifles sometimes get?

Has anyone treated you like a "dangerous gun nut" when they saw/otherwise learned of your 870P, Mossberg 500/590, Benelli, Defender, or other EBS, as opposed to a "skeet or hunting shotgun"? Have you needed/wanted to refute accusations that it was an "assault weapon"? What did you say?

I'm seeking advice on this sort of thing. I'm worried that if I defend my loved ones or myself with my Mossy 500, that the prosecutor will to try to demonize me as a "Murderous Gun Nut".
I'm worried that he will insist that it was not self-defense after all because I used an "assault shotgun". I'm worried that the jury will fall for this sophistry and nail me because my shotgun wasn't PC. Am I just being paranoid?

Thank you for your time and attention.

Elmer

 

[ACP230]

I have hunted grouse with my Mossberg 590 a few times. It didn't seem to bother anyone I met in the woods.
It might be interesting to try a round of Sporting Clays with it sometime and see what reaction I get.

 

[Al Thompson]

Just be able to articulate the advantages of your modifications and 90% of your problems will never arise.

A bunch of the answer also depends on where you live. If your in a rural area, I'd be surprised if there were any problems. NYC or some other bastion of anti-Constitutionalism, you may be better off with a Turkey gun and a skeet choke tube.

Note that you will, in either selection, be very well armed. Get some schooling and practice so that you can become a "deadly shotgunner" as opposed to someone with a "deadly shotgun".

 

[Sir Galahad]

Wait a second. One of my Defenders has wood furniture on it. And so does my AK. Does that make them "evil black-and-tans"? Hmmm....that sounds like a lousy pipe tobacco, doesn't it. I have an "assault pipe", too, now that I think about it. It holds more than ten pinches of tobacco. Where is the sporting purpose in that?

Worry first about what defends you best. Never settle for second best in the interest of PC. If some commie DA is going to try and example you after a self-defense shooting, he'll do it whether you used a "assault" shotgun or a 1700s flintlock fowling piece.

 

[hunter44]

Hmmmm gets me thinking about where my 870 Marine falls. It is half chrome and half black (evil). Since the barrel and the action are not black I guess they don't carry the 'evil' sting when they deliver to the BG. As at now I will just worry about being very efficient with it and the lawyers can argue which one deliver the evil load on the BG.

 

[Kevlarman]

I recall having a picture of my Mossberg 500 on eBay a few years ago (while trying to sell some tactical gear), and I got an email from someone who condemed me for having an "evil assault shotgun."

My M500 has a Speedfeed full stock (w/pistol grip), heat shield, and 7 round capacity magazine. Of course, when I told him the assault weapons law only applies to semi-auto shotguns, he quickly shut up.

 

[Guyon]

Well, there are evil black guns, and then there are evil black guns.

A lot of hunting guns these days feature synthetic black stocks and parkerized finishes. As a result, these guns are pretty well accepted by hunters.

I asked a similar question here a while back. Check out this thread entitled "HD Gun -- Stock or Tricked Out" ? It generated 28 replies.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1597&highlight=stock+tricked

 

[Mannlicher]

Elmer,

I fervently hope that you will disabuse your self of what some 'zealous prosecuter' Might Do , and concentrate on what YOU can do to optimize your coming out on top, in that once in a life time (we all hope) situation where only the most effective weapon you can find may be all that saves your bacon.

Is a black and (how I hate to utter this word) 'tactical' SG the more effective weapon? Maybe not. However, I am certain that something along the lines of a Mossy 590, or a Scattergun Tech, 870, would serve you better for social work than a Perazzi MX7.

 

[swampgator]

If the "EBS" bothers or concerns you so much, consider investing in wood stocks for the weapon. Saw a picture of an 8 shot Mossy 500 sporting walnut. Looks much sharper than one in tac-black.

 

[Marshall]

I use to think about the same thing not to long ago Elmer. But, when it comes to HD shotguns today, I don't think much about it anymore.

First, it's a shotgun, not a "Black Glock" or AK, SKS "assault" rifle.

Second, shotguns have been a favorite home defense weapon by hundreds of thousands in this country for a long time!

Third, HD shotguns are something many more "average american non-gun owners" are buying as a first and only firearm.

Forth, unlike a pistol or rifle, a HD shotgun can have a case made relatively easily that it's only purpose is to defend your home if need be and, be believable by a jury. Matter of fact, the addition of a light can even help in that case and, also show your concern to be correct in your target and reduce chances of friendly fire. There are also many published articles and, advertisements by the manufactures of these being "Home Defense" shotguns with the emphesis on "home" and "defense" not, car or truck and offense, LOL.

Fifth, all the reasons others have said too!


I didn't look to see where you live but, where I live a jury would laugh a prosecutor out of office for any HD shot, much less one shot from a shotgun made for the very purpose of defending your home! However, If I blow away an intruder with a big black 50BMG, I think I would have a mess on my hands (no pun intended lol) even where I live!

 

[Dave McCracken]

DAs vary as much as any other group of folks. Our last one here was a former cop, who shot a little target handgun and had more sense than most. I miss her. The new one is still an unknown to me on gun issues, but since this is MD, likely not gun cognizant and liberal as heck.

A good shoot is a good shoot. But, since emotion,
private agendas and ambition drive many DAs, the possibility is always there of a crucifixion.

My shotguns are Wingmasters, not Terminators, Persuaders, or Bad@$$ Mammajammas. My wardrobe has no T shirts with Jolly Rogers, or cute sayings like "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

I wear camo and BDUs when it's appropriate to the activity I'm engaged in.

I'm a sober and mature middle class citizen with a long history of LEGITIMATE firearms use.If I shoot someone,even the most virulent anti DA will have trouble portraying me as a "Gun Nut", IF IT'S A GOOD SHOOT.

If it's not, or shaky, then I've trouble.

 

[curt]

I think if things are going so badly in the court for you that the color of the weapon you used is a factor, then there was probably some, umm shall we say, ambigouity about the shooting.

If the need ever arises for me to point a gun at another human being i hope that i 've trained myself well enough that there will be no doubt that there was a need to . I mean if i shoot some slob for anything less than a threat to myself or others that is something i'll have to live with regardless of what a jury decides. On the other hand if someone is threatening me or my family with bodily harm i wouldn't care whether its stock was in the shape of satan.

Heck some people think any gun looks evil.

 

[PJR]

Sometimes the EBS will draw looks from the fancy crowd shooting clay targets. A few summers back a group of IDPA shooters wandered over to the skeet range at our club to give it a try. These were definitely EBS shooters.

It wasn't a problem for me but one of the regulars grumbled to the range master who offered a blunt response. "The guns are legal. They are shooting safely. They've paid for their targets. They are as welcome here as anyone else." Case closed.

As for prosecutors and juries I can't say. Possibly someone would ascribe intent to the fact you have a mean looking gun with a plastic stock but I'd guess the impact would be less than an Evil Black Rifle. Considering my own response to seeing a police officer with a shotgun versus seeing one with an MP5 and I'm inclined to believe the risk is less with a shotgun.

Paul

 

[Elmer Snerd]

I thank all of you for your responses.

I fervently hope that you will disabuse your self of what some 'zealous prosecuter' Might Do , and concentrate on what YOU can do to optimize your coming out on top, in that once in a life time (we all hope) situation where only the most effective weapon you can find may be all that saves your bacon.

I intend to. Better to be tried by 12, and all that.

A good shoot is a good shoot. But, since emotion,
private agendas and ambition drive many DAs, the possibility is always there of a crucifixion.

That's what I am probably just being paranoid about. That and a civil suit. Ya gotta be alive to get sued, though.

Curt, I think that you hit the nail on the head on all 3 counts.

I was just being paranoid, now I'll just be careful.

Besides, I bought it at Wal-Mart. I can always say "Are you saying that Wal-Mart sold me an assault weapon? I think that you need to speak to their lawyers."

Thanks again to all.

 

[riverdog]

My EBS isn't evil and it isn't black; it's a nice gun. It's a Wingmaster I had parkerized before parkerizing got popular. I kept the Wingmaster high gloss wood because the parkerized folding stock just didn't shoot well.

The barrel is a standard 20" rifle sighted slug barrel that has a great pattern at 15 yards with 00B. The original 30" full choke vent rib tube is in the box the 20" came in -- LNIB, not for sale. I added a one round extension to get the extra round and the stronger spring and not change the overall profile that much.

Eventually, I'm going to try it on the skeet range as is. My next upgrade is tritium replacements for the rifle sights.

 

[Wakal]

My SX2/Practical gets mistaken for a over-under at the Trap range, unless I forget to take the side-saddle and +2 off

However, I still want to shoot a "flurry" by myself with this moster:

http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/images/file/guns/USAS_race.JPG

IMO, the only shooting types even as close to snobbby about the "right" guns as the 'serious' shotgun crowd are the benchrest folks. I think any shooting is better than no shooting, but that is just me.



Alex

 

[oldpaladin]

Elmer,
Lot's of wisdom on this thread, and I have to agree with Sir Galahad... Especially, "Worry first about what defends you best. Never settle for second best in the interest of PC. If some commie DA is going to try and example you after a self-defense shooting, he'll do it whether you used a "assault" shotgun or a 1700s flintlock fowling piece." I don't remember the exact quote from Colonel Jeff Cooper, I'm sure someone will, but it was something about always using guns that are "unfair." Makes sense to me... Anybody that complains about the looks of my tricked-out Benelli M1014/M4S90's just doesn't appreciate true beauty! Some are blissfully ignorant, and quite happy being so... Not my job to educate them... My guns speak for themselves... Usually, all they get are admiring glances, a polite nod to me, or an impromptu bull session on the who, what, where, why, how, and when of it all... So far, no unkind words... Shucks, the most dangerous thing at the range, is someone that's not being safe! Gun's will never be the problem- it's the people! And so far, I like my shotguns better than most people! Present list and a few others, excepted, of course...

Regards and Respects,
Carter, oldpaladin, out...