Eric Holder speaks during today's Senate committee "grilling"

[alan]

During the course of the above, parts of which I heard this afternoon, Attorney General Nominee Holder mentioned that he agreed with President Elect Obama concerning "common sense gun laws", which included "closing the gunshow loophole" and "banning cop killer bullets". Having heard these comments I'm given to wonder as to the former, what "gunshow loophole" is the man talking about?

Re the banning of "cop killer bullets", that phrase being largely the product of media hysterics and numb-nuts teleprompter readers, these "cop killer" bullets are likely the long out of production KTW projectiles, which were developed by law enforcement types, as an aid to their fellow coppers, whose 38 Special firing revolvers, pretty much the police service weapon of the day back then, lacked penetrating power. The KTW Bullets (Teflon coated projectiles) offered enhanced penetration.

The interesting FACTS about these bullets, there are three that come to mind, are as follows.

1. They were never available via normal commercial channels, as they were sold to law enforcement only, and then under law enforcement purchase order only.
2. They have been out of production for many years.
3. So far as the record shows, the number of cops killed with these "cop killer bullets" is ZERO.

Given that neither Obama or Holder could likely HONESTLY plead ignorance of the facts, it remains that Holder's spouting off on the subject raises serious question as to the propriety of his confirmation to the office of U.S. Attorney General, even lacking other aspects of his background and past that of and in themselves, raise what might be disqualifying questions.

Readers of the foregoing might consider getting in touch with their U.S. Senators, ASAP.

 

[owlhoot]

Holder was Janet Reno's protégé and right-hand man. That should tell us all we need to know. And what bullet won't kill a cop? He said nothing about penetrating body armor. And "common sense" gun laws. Those would be the laws in effect in his and Obama's hometown, Chicago.

 

[Dark_Harvest]

I especially liked the way he started blinking when challenged on specific points.

Not a very convincing liar.

 

[amd6547]

When the "Cop Killer Bullet" media frenzy was going on, proposed legislation used an expanded definition that would have banned many common FMJ bullets. It was used as a means to ban ammo.

 

[Pilot]

Holder is a far left, anti gun radical. Our only hope is the political fallout should Obama sign any more gun or ammo control legislation. 1994 is still in their minds. Their ONLY objective is maintaining power and staying in office.

 

[thebucket]

These cop killer bullets he's talking about may, to him, mean any cartridges that can penetrate kevlar vests. So basically everything short of a .22 and some handgun rounds.

 

[TexasRifleman]

"Cop Killer bullets" will be the lead in to serialized ammunition or licensing to purchase any rifle ammunition, or some similar BS.

I have said for the last 4 years that the next attack will not be on guns, it will be on ammo.

There will be no gun bans, but ammo will come under attack very shortly in some manner of taxation, licensing, or restriction.

 

[GEM]

The gun show loophole refers to the idea that you can buy a gun at the show without a NICS check. It is portrayed as if the most shows sell most of their guns that way - ignoring that at major shows the dealers have FFLs and you go through NICS.

For those who understand that, they then argue that still a good deal of private party selling goes on at the show - a meet and greet - and would want such sales at an organized show to go throw NICS - have a table set up to to that.

The idea behind that an organized show is an attractive nuance that attracts and enables sales between folks who wouldn't pass NICS scrutiny.

One would argue that private sales still could take place outside of shows but some folks want even those to go through NICS, you would have to go to a store or the law to get approval for a private transfer.

That's what the gun show loophole means in its various degrees of implementation and understanding.

Sometimes, gun stores have come out in favor of banning gunshows or private sales without checks as they can see increasing their business.

 

[tube_ee]

the "gun show loophole"

simply means a ban on any non-FFL sales of firearms.

Most FFLs would likely love this... it would increase their business. At least here in California, where we already have such a law, the commercial gun stores were vocal supporters of the law. It's not difficult to see why.

What they're talking about is a ban on face-to-face sales of firearms. That's the loophole.

If you go to a show with a gun to sell or trade, you're an "unlicensed private dealer", and what you're doing is a huge threat to public safety.

--Shannon

 

[benEzra]

"Cop-killer bullets" were already banned in 1986. So either he doesn't know what he is talking about, or he is using the buzzword as cover for broader ammo bans.

 

[Cyborg]

Cop Killer Bullets

Nice read about "cop killer bullets".
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvcopk.html

Question: If nobody makes 'em, why ban 'em? Besides, what are they anyhow?
Answer: 'Cause if you ban something that isn't well defined, you can put anything your little scroungy heart desires into the definition and ban that!
Response: So then the real reason to ban "cop killer bullets" is to open the door to banning whatever you want that is firearm related.
Response2: You got it, sparkey. Hit the bullseye first time out.

Cy

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

Thank God that someone found the cause of all the homicides of police officers. It wasn't the cause of murderous, brutish thugs but instead a special breed of projectile. May we forever be blessed by the wisdom of those appointed to high office who turn our rights into their power.

 

[MD_Willington]

Just thought of something, in Canada you need a license to buy ammo, not sure if it is true for states, is it true that you need a FOID in Il to buy ammo.

If that is the case, then even if serialization does not occur, watch for them to call for a ammo license, and limit the quantity of ammo purchased per month.

The same way they regulate pseudo ephedrine, you show you drivers license and can buy only X amount per month.

 

[FoMoGo]

I already roll my own... may be time to start casting them too...


Jim

 

[mbt2001]

Ammo serialization bills have been defeated in some liberal stomping grounds... I can't imagine that it could get passed in the US Congress, but I guess anything is possible.

 

[alan]

Miy I repeat the closing line from my originating post:

Readers of the foregoing might consider getting in touch with their U.S. Senators, ASAP.

All it costs you is a moments computer or telephone time, and considering what might be lost, compared with what might be gained, it strikes me as time well spent, this being my personal opinion entirely.

 

[JWF III]

I was listening to Sean Hannity the other night (same station as Atlanta traffic coverage), and he said something that caught my attention. Sometime in the 80s (I think), Holder renounced his citizenship of the USA. So, unless he lies on a 4473, he cannot legally own a personnel firearm. But he is (somehow) able to be considered for the chief law enforcement officer for the entire nation.

This just makes no sense to me. As do most of the nominees, and the conservatives are putting up almost no fight against them.

Again this is hearsay from me, but it did come from a credible source.

Wyman

 

[Baba Louie]

...Holder renounced his citizenship of the USA.

I'm thinking that it wasn't Holder who renounced citizenship, but Marc Rich who went to Switzerland to escape tax evasion. Holder assisted Rich in seeking out a Presidential pardon... if memory recalls, timing was right. Hazy, murky, business as usual.

As for common sense gun laws and ban on EBRs and CK boolits (that'd be the elusive Cop Killing kind of), I am shocked. SHOCKED I say! Who could have seen THAT coming from someone who served under Janet Reno? :banghead:

In touch w/ Senators? Harry Reid... John Ensign. 1 outta 2 ain't bad, but to what end? Its a done deal.

I'm awed at the paradigm shift in AG positions from Ashcroft's announcement way back supporting RKBA as opposed to Reno's, now watching as the pendulum swings back the other direction. But I can't say I'm surprised.

Somewhere in between the 2 polar ends might lie the reality of RKBA as opposed to that which was argued, debated and added to the Bill of Rights actual intent, not to mention the Homer S. Cummings (FDR's AG) approach to RKBA which expanded Federal control of arms in the land for the 1st time.

Business, as usual. Probably not a good time to live in a "compound". Ya know?

 

[TexasRifleman]

As far as the citizen ship thing goes, the question follows. It was in regards to the Marc Rich thing, yes.

Have to be careful pulling quotes out. The guy (holder) is bad enough already, we don't have to take quotes out of context to make him appear worse.

Question #5: Marc Rich

You played a prominent role in the pardon of Marc Rich, recommending his pardon to the White House as "neutral leaning favorable." Mr. Rich had fled the country after being indicted for racketeering, trading with the enemy (the Ayatollah Khomeini during the period that Iran was holding 52 U.S. hostages), and millions of dollars in tax evasion. He avoided extradition requests and allegedly renounced his citizenship in order to prevent extradition. For these crimes, Rich had been featured on the FBI's "Ten Most Wanted" list and was the subject of a nearly two-decades-long investigation.

 

[woad_yurt]

I saw the part where the guy from Oklahoma was asking questions and got specific with guns. Holder was very respectful of the Heller decision. He said that, since that decision, a person has the right to own personal firearms. Holder didn’t give me any bad chills.

He seemed intelligent, middle-of-the-road, collected and prepared, not the type to go off on a cop-killer-bullet tailspin, you know? To do that, zealotry and stupidity are necessary. So could it be that maybe, since the phrase “cop killer bullets” is more of a slogan than a threatening, actual, physical thing, he was throwing the antis a meaningless bone?

That was my impression, anyway…. I think that it could’ve been a lot worse.

 

[HexHead]

Here's what Holder was referring to....

http://www.vpc.org/studies/bigboomers.pdf

 

[alan]

To whom it may concern:

Perhaps off point, forgive me, but re Marc Rich's post indictment abscounding from the country, how is it that Mr. Rich, having been indicted for what I assume was a fairly serious violation of the law, was allowed to keep his passport. Of course, looking at whose administration was in power at the time, and who headed the so-called Dept. of Justice, that question might be characterized as "self answering".

 

[4v50 Gary]

Cop killer bullet may be applied to any bullet used to kill a cop. If liberally enforced, it would result in an all encompassing ban.

If they can't go after the guns, they'll go after your ammunition and then we'll have to get a Supreme Court decision that states that ammunition is inherently included in the right to bear arms. Remember when Gage marched his men to Lexington and Concord it wasn't to seize small arms but cannon and gun powder.

 

[JWF III]

Thanks, I (may) stand corrected. As implied by my previous post, I was right in the middle of ATL traffic. Average 2 hr trip for 50 miles (3/4 of which is interstate highway). So please forgive me of my mistake, I was cussing at all the Obama/Biden stickers around me.

Wyman

 

[JBB]

Closing the gun show "loophole" is just a way to stop all private transfers of firearms. This goes way beyond the private sale between two individuals and could also include the gift of firearms between family members. A grandfather could not give (transfer) a gun to a grandchild, for example, without using an FFL dealer. This, in turn, could lead to firearm registration and worse. Obama, Holder, Emanuel, and the rest will be our worst nightmare in the weeks to come. Don't forget Hillary, either, the State Dept. can ban the importation of firearms with the stroke of a pen. They can do a lot of damage without ever going through Congress.