Ever been investigated for buying certain legal substances?

[Aragon]

I'm curious if anyone here has ever been personally been investigated for buying certain fully legal substances from a source like Amazon?

I was thinking about (completely legal in most states) explosive gun targets being made with a mixture of ammonium nitrate 34-0-0 fertilizer (completely legal in all states) and powdered aluminum (completely legal in all states)?

In most states the only restrictions on so called "binary explosives" is that the two constituent chemicals cannot be mixed prior to transport (which would then require a special license to transport explosives) and in some cases the amount of explosive that can be triggered at any one time.

I'm not interested in foilers' unsubstantiated fears. I'm curious if anyone here has ever been investigated or has personal knowledge of someone else being investigated? I asked because I can't see paying for commercially packaged "binary" explosives or gun targets.

I suspect the amount of certain legal chemicals purchased might raise a flag? That might even happen with black power given the restrictions of how much may be stored at each location? Thanks for any input.

 

[Big7]

I have not.

If you make it in volume watch out.
And.. Since the Oklahoma City bombing,
34-0-0 is stabilized, the "real" stuff is hard to get.
UNLESS you have a blasting license.

If you buy the "name brand" and we all know what that is,
you can have an airplane hanger full. NOT illegal .

Just don't shoot a lawn mower full at close range!

 

[Aragon]

I have not.

If you make it in volume watch out.
And.. Since the Oklahoma City bombing,
34-0-0 is stabilized, the "real" stuff is hard to get.
UNLESS you have a blasting license.

If you buy the "name brand" and we all know what that is,
you can have an airplane hanger full. NOT illegal .

Just don't shoot a lawn mower full at close range!

You can have an airplane hangar full of the two constituents not mixed with one another. Even that would however attract (reasonably enough) attention when you went to purchase the stuff. You couldn't have a hangar full of the two chemicals mixed together without a license (and correct zoning) however.

I don't believe it's legal without a special license to detonate more than #50 at a time -- store bought or homemade. The 34-0-0 used by the name brand company is easy to get in smaller quantities.

 

[Twiki357]

Maybe I’m missing something, but how would an investigation even be initiated unless some third party became suspicious of some big stock pile? It surely would not be referred to law enforcement by the seller and the shipper would not necessarily know what was in a package (shipment) unless the contents had to be disclosed.

 

[DeepSouth]

I know someone that claims to have been visited by a federal agency (I forget which one) after he pulled about 20K cash out of a bank account to buy a car.

Apparently if you withdraw over a certain amount of cash it throws up a flag to someone.

And.. Since the Oklahoma City bombing,
34-0-0 is stabilized, the "real" stuff is hard to get.
UNLESS you have a blasting license.

That's not exactly correct, but I want go into it. I'll iust say you can easily go to the local co-op, or any "feed and seed" type store and easily/legally buy the ingredients for a very large bomb. I'd also add thousands of farmers buy these ingredients in extremely large quantities on a very regular basis.

 

[outlawjw]

Why would you even want to know. If you are going to buy repackage for resale you are going to have to get a business license first & then b
uying would be legitimized. If you would like a couple 55 gallon drums for personal use , you need another hobbies that one will get you killed, odds are to high for an accident. I think if the seller s of this type stuff didn't know you & you didn't have a tax # they might be a little supisious. I personally would hope so.

 

[medalguy]

^^^ Right you are. Google "Texas City Disaster."

 

[Aragon]

Maybe I’m missing something, but how would an investigation even be initiated unless some third party became suspicious of some big stock pile? It surely would not be referred to law enforcement by the seller and the shipper would not necessarily know what was in a package (shipment) unless the contents had to be disclosed.

Well, that's my question. If someone ordered say 1,000 ea. of the #50 bags of Ammonium Nitrate 34-0-0 legally for sale on Amazon, I'm certain there would be due diligence done by the seller (once they made sure THEY could place their hands on #50,000) with the FBI/BATFE before they fulfilled the order.

You're right about the shipper -- they wouldn't know.

 

[Aragon]

Why would you even want to know. If you are going to buy repackage for resale you are going to have to get a business license first & then b
uying would be legitimized. If you would like a couple 55 gallon drums for personal use , you need another hobbies that one will get you killed, odds are to high for an accident. I think if the seller s of this type stuff didn't know you & you didn't have a tax # they might be a little supisious. I personally would hope so.

Your retort is arrogant and 100% non-value added...

 

[DeepSouth]

Well, that's my question. If someone ordered say 1,000 ea. of the #50 bags of Ammonium Nitrate 34-0-0 legally for sale on Amazon, I'm certain there would be due diligence done by the seller (once they made sure THEY could place their hands on #50,000) with the FBI/BATFE before they fulfilled the order.

You can buy the 50# bags at a co-op, all they have, no questions asked.
Tons at a time, no problem. I have bought several tons at a time this way with no trouble, on more than one occasion.

If you buy it not bagged, by the ton, it is "technically" more complicated for the seller. In reality, there is a loop hole (for lack of a better word) that allows the seller to avoid the paperwork and regulations to do apparently exist.

 

[Metal God]

Your retort is arrogant and 100% non-value added...

Well get ready for another . Why are you asking these questions ?? what's your plan for this material ??

I personally would hate to find out some guy/gal got there info to do something dumb from a firearms forum . I say time to give a few more details or close this thread .

 

[Aragon]

Well get ready for another . Why are you asking these questions ?? what's your plan for this material ??

I personally would hate to find out some guy/gal got there info to do something dumb from a firearms forum . I say time to give a few more details or close this thread .

I never said that I was planning to make such a purchase -- apparently you missed that. Even if I did it wouldn't be any of your business.

Hope you realize you're psychologically projecting with your "something dumb" comment? Not all share your personal limitations therefore you shouldn't try to apply them to others.

 

[Aragon]

You can buy the 50# bags at a co-op, all they have, no questions asked.

Tons at a time, no problem. I have bought several tons at a time this way with no trouble, on more than one occasion.

Yet I'm fairly sure if you ordered several tons via Amazon that you'd get flagged by the seller.

If you buy it not bagged, by the ton, it is "technically" more complicated for the seller. In reality, there is a loop hole (for lack of a better word) that allows the seller to avoid the paperwork and regulations to do apparently exist.

Oki-Doki

 

[outlawjw]

It seems to me that if you had a legitimate reason for wanting to know I would have thought you would have made it known to us , & since you haven't I personally have told you enough. The nitrate you buy at co-op now is not amonia nitrate you now have to have a license to get the good stuff.

 

[DeepSouth]

Yet I'm fairly sure if you ordered several tons via Amazon that you'd get flagged by the seller.

That may well be true, but if it is it's only a company policy. It's also extremely unlikely anyone would order that large of an amount from Amazon when they could drive down to a co-op and buy it cheaper, faster, and easier.

The nitrate you buy at co-op now is not amonia nitrate you now have to have a license to get the good stuff.

I'll stop short of saying that is false, but just because it's impossible to know what is meant by "the good stuff"
I can assure you, without doubt, fertilizer grade ammonium nitrate can make a massive bomb, and you don't have to have a license to buy it.

 

[outlawjw]

They use it here in the south to make crystal method out of so the nitrate you buy here if you are not a licensed farmer or business that uses it , the deer hunter nitrate is not amonia nitrate but it works almost as good for fertilizer. You have to be able to buy the liquid to get the real deal& it is monitored closely

 

[jmr40]

I know someone that claims to have been visited by a federal agency (I forget which one) after he pulled about 20K cash out of a bank account to buy a car.

Apparently if you withdraw over a certain amount of cash it throws up a flag to someone.

That has been around since the 1980's to make it harder for drug dealers to spend profits. Any deposit, or withdrawal of cash over $9,999 is reported to the feds. Anyone buying a house, car, boat, plane etc. with over $9,999 cash money has to be reported too and results in an investigation. It can be less if the bank employees are suspicious. For example multiple $5000 withdrawals over a few months.

I don't understand why anyone would do this anyway. It'd be so much simpler to just have the bank make out a certified check to the seller. There is more paperwork involved at the bank to withdraw the $10K in cash than to have a check made out. You have to do each withdrawal $10K at a time and fill out paperwork on each withdrawal.

 

[Aragon]

It seems to me that if you had a legitimate reason for wanting to know I would have thought you would have made it known to us , & since you haven't I personally have told you enough. The nitrate you buy at co-op now is not amonia nitrate you now have to have a license to get the good stuff.

In all sincerity where did you learn how to think? I ask that not to be rude but because it's clear you're not thinking in a critical manner. Rather you're asking questions to denigrate and to hear yourself talk. Both are terrifically bad form -- and that's on you.

You haven't told me anything of value, that's absolutely for certain.

Finally, I didn't ask about amonia (sic) nitrate from a co-cop or a myth about the "good stuff." It's either ammonium nitrate 34-0-0 -- coated or not (both are available on Amazon) or it's not.

 

[GAF]

About 10 years ago a friend of mine had the DEA show up at his door because his girl friend bought 6 packages of a generic allergy / sinus medicine with
Pseudo ephedrine . It was on sale and my friend told her to buy a little extra.

It happens.

 

[Aragon]

That may well be true, but if it is it's only a company policy. It's also extremely unlikely anyone would order that large of an amount from Amazon when they could drive down to a co-op and buy it cheaper, faster, and easier.

My question was this: "I'm curious if anyone here has ever been personally been investigated for buying certain fully legal substances from a source like Amazon?" I didn't ask about co-ops.

I'll stop short of saying that is false, but just because it's impossible to know what is meant by "the good stuff"
I can assure you, without doubt, fertilizer grade ammonium nitrate can make a massive bomb, and you don't have to have a license to buy it.

This "good stuff" myth is entertaining...

 

[dh1633pm]

Isn't this an interesting post. If I am interested by curiosity to look, then guess who else is? And its not the cat.

 

[SwaneeSR]

If this OP was by a new member with one or two posts..... I would have thought something is up.

I would think online purchase records for certain legal substances and data like on this site are sifted through filters and flagged.

Swanee

 

[Aragon]

Isn't this an interesting post. If I am interested by curiosity to look, then guess who else is? And its not the cat.

You're implying that one or more gov't agencies are going to somehow investigate those who took part in this thread? Really? C'mon -- I asked that foilers not take part in posting #1...

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Aragon:

You're implying that one or more gov't agencies are going to somehow investigate those who took part in this thread? Really? C'mon

It would be naive to rule out the possibility that participation in the thread could lead to investigative activity.

 

[Warp]

You're implying that one or more gov't agencies are going to somehow investigate those who took part in this thread? Really? C'mon -- I asked that foilers not take part in posting #1...

People taking part in the thread? Taken at face value, no.

People asking about buying large quantities of explosives or materials used to manufacturer explosives, with an angle of trying to not get investigated? Possibly.