"Everything You Know About Shotgun Shooting is WRONG"

[Speed Racer]

Last night I picked up a 2004 Guns & Ammo special annual magazine titled "Surefire Presents Combat Tactics". It's a 164 page book with several "ads" for Surefire, as you would imagine, but there are also some very interesting tactical articles. In this little gem, there is a story written by Rob Haught (with excellent photography by Ichiro Nagata) wherein he details his "Push-Pull" technique for handling a tactical/combat shotgun.

The title of this post (which is the title of the article) gives away the twist to Rob's story as his Push-Pull technique asks the user to "use only enough rearward pressure to hold the shotgun level on target. The support arm is exerting muscle tension forward, away from the shoulder. In effect, the Push-Pull technique acts as a shock absorber which soaks up recoil energy before it hits the shoulder. Students tell me it diminishes felt recoil by 50 percent or more."

Rob goes on to describe that his students shoot over 300 rounds a day in his 3-day classes with no injury.

I was shocked when I read this with the realization of the logical use of apposing energy to absorb the recoil. While I'm a rookie shotgunner to most of you here, I was always instructed by my father and his more experienced shotgunning friends to pull the gun right into the pocket of my shoulder - with both hands.

I guess I'm posting this to see what you folks think. I tried a search on this message board, but I could find no reference to Rob Haught or his technique. Do others here employ this technique either after being so instructed or perhaps on their own? I can't wait to get to the range to try this.

Thoughts ...

 

[45auto]

I'm not sure about "combat" type of shotgunning, but I would expect that technique, if it works, would not be conducive for clay or winged shooting.

Any undue tension, pulling or pushing of either arm/hand will bind you up for a fluid motion on moving targets I believe.

I'm really not sure on static targets whether it would help, hurt or no difference.

 

[Jeff White]

That certainly wouldn't work with a recoil operated shotgun like a Benelli. I found out the hard way in Louis Awerbuck's Stage 1 shogun that if you don't give a strong platform for it to recoil into, it will malfunction.

I would also imagine that you'd have to have really good strength in your upper arms to keep from severly bruising yourself.

My experience is that if you hold the shotgun firmly in the pocket of your shoulder you can shoot a lot before fatigue sets in. I shot between 6-7 hundred rounds in 3 days at the Awerbuck course and had no bruising or any other effects of recoil. This was with a Benelli M121 M1.

My experience is that shooters who try to hold the shotgun off to avoid the recoil often end up with nasty bruises on their bicep or collar bone. I'd be interested to know how you transition to other targets while you are push/pulling the shotgun? Seems like it will be awkward to me.

I think I'll continue to shoot and teach the stock firmly mounted in the pocket of the shoulder.

Jeff

 

[mete]

Jeff, I don't understand your comments about the Benelli .The recoil operated or delayed blowback like my M1-90 requires movement of the receiver to function .I've fired mine one handed like a pistol without shoulder support without problems. This is not true of the long recoil browning auto 5 where receiver movement causes malfunction as has been discovered by many light weight women or kids.

 

[Dave McCracken]

(Eyeing askance)....

I wonder if this gentleman would be able to make it to MD...

 

[Speed Racer]

Contact info added at end of article:

Rob Haught
Chief of Police of Sisterville, WV
Private classes available
(304) 455-5203




Dave - let us know how the class goes.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Could be neat.
If push overcomes pull...
Could get some really hard smackin recoil cause gun away from body.

Saves money. Shoot trap loads and get the effect of magnums.
On body, not target.

Sam

 

[Jeff White]

mete,
I know that I can induce a short recoil type malfunction in my Benelli if I don't lean into it and give a firm surface for it to recoil against. Happens everytime.

I'm a big guy, 6'2", 245, 48 chest, 40 waist. It's not like it's pushing against a little guy.

Jeff

 

[sm]

Granted, I'm not in the league as some folks here.
I have run a good number of rounds downrange, including my fair share with recoil operated SGs. I beg to differ with the article.

I have and can still make a recoil op SG malfuntion.
I have experienced recoil. Even with a less that proper gun fit, I can lessen recoil by utilizing proper gun mounting,stance... etc.

I'm 6' and 170 #. I'm not recoil shy per se'...but improper mounting and such with a 20 ga O/U will thump one real good if proper methods not employed. If one wants to really get thumped try slugs from recoil Op SG improperly mounted, not a good thing IMNSHO, especially if in real world situation and one really needs the gun to work, ,"short stroke" when things are serious...no thanks. I'll continue to do it "wrong".

 

[coylh]

I glanced through the article. I think he was using a pump. Not sure how well it will work with semi.

I didn't pay too much attention to the article because it looked like one of those "I've got a more tactical stance than you" papers.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Speed Racer, hold not thy breath waiting.

I don't claim to be the Holder of Ultimate Truth when it comes to "Serious" shotgunning. There's more than one road. But, I do know what works for me, and this isn't it.

Also, I'd kinda like to see some of these Shotgun Sensei, including this guy and the one that has people holding most of the butt over the shoulder in a recent thread, do in a realistic COF against some excellent shotgunners using more traditional techniques. My guess, these folks might get their butts whipped badly.

 

[Speed Racer]

In the article, Rob is using a sweet Wilson Tactical 14-inch Rem 870 - outfitted with a Surefire foregrip, of course. However, they mention and show pictures of military personel using some varient of the Benelli M4 (I believe) gas gun. No conversation of malfunction was discussed with this SG.

As others have mentioned, I'm curious how one regulates between Rob's Push-Pull and a sore shoulder.

 

[Correia]

I do the opposite, pull, pull. I shoot a pump, as I'm shooting I'm applying rearward pressure on the pump. The instant the action unlocks it is on the way back.

300 rounds a day with out injury? No offense, but big freaking whoop. I've developed bruises over a day of shooting, but I don't think I've ever been "injured".

 

[sm]

Bruises are like scratches on a firearm, if you don't have any , could mean you ain't shooting enough.

Heck, injuries, more likely to get hurt with trap, machines, steel targets being set up/ reset, richochet, clay chips...etc. 4 rules and what I call "proper handling" I feel safe around the guns... now them dang pull cords are sneaky little fellers...

Correia, I believe the pull pull ...that pressure to unlock...I do the same , bet most of us do.
ahem, if you'd ever get that video done...we could learn from you, remember the speed loading you were gonna share...

 

[Correia]

re, I know, I know. There were a couple of guys who were going to make a promotional video for our club. The one with the good digital camera is still here, (member of this board in fact). The guy with the mad computer skills who was supposed to edit it all into a coherent video and put it on our webpage up and moved. So I don't know where we are at with that at this point. I've got a match on the 15th, I'll bug them about it then.