Excellent Self Defense Loads From Major Manufactures

[147 Grain]

****** 9mm Luger ******


Winchester Ranger T: LE Only
147-gr. HP (RA9T)
124-gr. +P Bonded HP (RA9BAB)
147-gr. Bonded HP (RA9B)
124-gr. Bonded HP (RA99124TP)
127-gr. +P+ HP (RA9TA)


Remington Golden Saber: Similar to Ranger T
147-gr. HP (GS9MMC)
124-gr. +P Bonded HP (GSB9MMD)
147-gr. +P Bonded HP (GSB9MMC)



****** 40 S&W ******

Winchester Ranger T: LE Only
180-gr. HP (RA40T)
165-gr. Bonded HP (RA40BA)
165-gr. HP (RA40TA)
180-gr. Bonded HP (RA40B)

Remington Golden Saber: Similar to Ranger T
180-gr. HP (GS40SWB)
165-gr. Bonded HP (GSB40SWA)
180-gr. Bonded HP (GSB40SWB)



****** 45 ACP ******

Winchester Ranger T: LE Only
230-gr. +P HP (RA45TP)
230-gr. HP (RA45T)
230-gr. Bonded HP (RA45B)

Remington Golden Saber: Similar to Ranger T
230-gr. HP (GS45APB)
230-gr. Bonded HP (GSB45APB)

 

[481]

This thread seems to lack direction and substance.

I agree. Other than posting ammunition manufacturer's product line listings (that anyone could easily find on the 'net with a quick search), I too, see no point to this thread.

Educational?

Ehh. (shrugs shoulders)

 

[Sam1911]

I agree. Other than posting ammunition manufacturer's product line listings (that anyone could easily find on the 'net with a quick search), I too, see no point to this thread.

Kind of hard to have much of a discussion on the, oh, say 115 best handgun cartridges currently made.

Surely they do capture the top 10%, at least, of popular defensive rounds. I mean they'd just about have to... I'm not sure there even are 1,115 different variants available, so these are probably the top 10%.

Would it be plausible to also say, that the shooter should launch their choice of bullet from either a Glock, S&W, Springfield, Sig, Colt, Beretta, H&K, FNH, Taurus, Kimber, Ruger, or Steyr, handgun as they are highly recommended as well?

It is hard to discuss the subject matter as it seems almost completely open-ended. About all anyone can say is... "yup."

 

[ohwell]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion! I prefer a bullet that is more of a sure expander so as to actually create a wound channel and stop in the intended target. I have seen to many videos and pictures of a lot of the ammo you recommend not expanding and going through like a full metal jacket which could lead to injuring more than just the target including innocent bystanders. You are responsible for that bullet until is stops. My preference would be for Hornady Critical Defense, HST's or Gold Dots. I am on the other end of the spectrum expansion is more important. So in ending this mundane train of thought we all have our own ideas of whats more important I have to agree with 481 this thread is pointless.

 

[147 Grain]

My project for a "Handgun Ammo Sticky" on another Forum (as a Moderator) isn't complete and I posted a good list on this Forum without a lot of explanation about the performance of each load. Without a bunch of details, I made the thread FYI for Consideration. Will do better next time with more details about test data and etc....

I value my privacy a great deal! and have several decades of working with our country’s elite law enforcement agencies and access to FBI databases and ALL their weapons training when living near Quantico, Virginia for 15 years. I also enjoyed serving as IDPA, Range Instructor for 19 years, and Sniper School Instructor before being seriously injured in the Line of Duty protecting our Country doing undercover work in foreign countries.

Did I mention that I value my privacy a great deal! while going through physical therapy 5 days a week for the past 12 years? When things are more complete after outlining a couple of basic principles as to why a round is on the list, then I'll explain the parameters of the need for above average penetration and good expansion.

 

[147 Grain]

Here’s a couple of tid bits:

1. Shot placement is the key to self-defense and your best weapon is between your ears. As a civilian, if you can get out of a fire-fight and live another day, do it! Common sense and using good reason should be your guide here as there are times when it's prudent to stay in a hostile situation even when you can leave, but this might be the exception. Every case is different!

2. Next to that, the choice of bullet and its construction can put more odds in your favor.

3. Choice of caliber (within reason) takes 3rd place.

 

[147 Grain]

The FBI declared 11 years ago that 62% of the time during an OIS (Officer Involved Shooting), the bullet must pass through a hand, arm, shoulder, neck, leg, thigh. or BONE before even attempting to reach the vitals. Under such conditions, less than adequate penetration is often experienced and the Bad Guy (BG) has plenty of time to mortally wound you. This is also common sense and one of the major factors why above average penetration is a key factor for most ammo loads to be on my list!

 

[147 Grain]

Furthermore, many PD's across the country tell Trainees in their Academies that over half the time during an OIS (Officer Involved Shooting), the bullet must pass through the perpetrator at an odd angle - resulting in a longer distance to penetrate the vitals. Again, under such conditions, less than adequate penetration is often experienced and the BG has more time to mortally wound you (than if a bullet penetrated deep past his vitals).

Can you see a trend here as to why (next to common sense and shot placement), penetration can put more odds in your favor?

Bad Guys don't know that they're supposed to stand straight up and hold perfectly still like a range target does - right? Bullets passing through extremities, bones, odd angles, thick clothing, at moving targets and etc... need to penetrate at least 12" in order to put more odds in your favor.

Most loads on my list offer a good balance between penetration and expansion. Heavy for caliber bullets fit this criteria better than their lighter-weight counterparts (in general - with some exceptions, like midweight bonded projectiles at higher velocities with a +P rating).

 

[147 Grain]

Furthermore, many PD's across the country tell Trainees in their Academies that over half the time during an OIS, the bullet must pass through the (moving) perpetrator at an odd angle - resulting in a longer distance to penetrate the vitals. Again, under such conditions, less than adequate penetration is often experienced and the BG has plenty of time to mortally wound you.

___________________________

Question:

* Do you know how long it takes the average man to cover 21' while running towards you with a knife (the distance PD's consider the "Danger Zone")? Just "1.5 seconds!"

Can your favorite load stop him with a few well-placed shots in 1.5 seconds? Are you proficient enough to fire multiple shots (while moving backwards) into a target moving towards you and then be smooth enough to also step to the side just before he reaches you? Have you heard of and practiced the Tueller Drill?

 

[147 Grain]

In addition, as another example as to why adequate penetration is necessary to more quickly stop the threat, a lightweight for caliber bullet going through a leather-gloved hand (both sides of thick leather) loses about 4" - 5" of penetrating power. Midweight and heavy for caliber projectiles enable greater penetrating power to reach the vitals and put more odds in your favor. My list of recommended ammo for self-defense mostly follows FBI Protocol with a few exceptions.

In short, penetration is king and expansion is queen!

 

[147 Grain]

Quick incapacitation of a BG comes from two things:

1. A hit to the CNS (Central Nervous System) that cuts off the signal to the brain, heart, lungs, and/or results in paralysis.

2. A hit to the upper Thoracic Triangle area housing the lungs, heart, and major blood vessels – resulting in loss of blood pressure and oxygen to the brain. FBI documents state that a BG can usually function for 20 - 45 seconds or more until loss of consciousness occurs. Some studies say 90 - 120 seconds, but 20 - 45 seconds is more realistic for the BG to continue causing harm to you or others.

 

[147 Grain]

Moreover, because the threat can continue after a mortal wound, we need to rethink our viewpoint of light-penetrating bullets due to the inherent underpowered nature of handguns in general.

Most firefights can be summed up using the Rule of 3:

1. Less than 3 Shots.
2. Less than 3 Seconds.
3. Less than 3 Yards.

 

[147 Grain]

In conclusion, my forum signature for the last decade encourages folks training for self-defense situations to raise their sights (literally) and aim for the Thoracic Triangle, the area between the armpits / nipples and the base of the throat where the heart, lungs, and major blood vessels are located.

Multiple hits center mass in the Thoracic Triangle will likely result in the quickest incapacitation of the threat due to:

1. The CNS (Central Nervous System) cutting off the signal to the brain, heart, lungs, and/or paralysis of the BG.

2. Loss of blood pressure and oxygen to the brain resulting in unconsciousness and possibly death.

 

[JShirley]

So, the whole point of this thread is just to pontificate the loads the OP thinks are best?

Well, that's been done.

J