Expensive Weapons Lights

[gunguy56]

I can't get over the fact that Surefire thinks so much of their weapons lights to actually charge up to $600 each for some models..that's as much as some low end M4-type rifles. Has anyone here actually pulled that kind of $ out of their personal funds to buy one?? If so, do you really feel it is worth it?

 

[230therapy]

It's not about the money. The light needs to perform in tough conditions. That $600 light (X400) includes a laser. $275 for the X300 is quite a hit, but value depends upon performance over time. A cheaper light may take fewer bumps and dings before malfunctioning. If your life or job is dependent upon the functioning of that light...buy and carry two.

Has Surefire overpriced its product? You'll need to check out the reviews and look for alternatives.

 

[SentinelStrategic]

SureFire lights are insanely rugged. The cost reflects not only the durability of the lights, but also the build quality that goes into them. SureFire lights are among the few lights out there that are actually designed to be used in essentially all combat environments. They have models that are dive-capable.


You have to comparatively look at the weaponlight market. Essentially, there is no other company that can even come close to competing with SureFire for dedicated weaponlights. The one exception is with handgun weaponlights and Streamlight, with their TLR-1 and TLR-1S. The SureFire X300 puts out 170lumens and costs $249, while the Streamlight TLR-1S is $100 with 160lumens. I personally like SureFire better, but my duty pistol has a TLR-1S on it because I didn't need to have a weaponlight that was waterproof and dive-capable, and hence didn't need to spend an additional $149. If I were part of a marine/aquatic tactical team like Miami SWAT or FBI HRT, I would most definitely be sporting the SureFire.

Does the average Joe Gunowner need to spend $800 on an M720V RAID or $575 on an M620V Scout? No. That's why SureFire sells so many G2s and 6Ps. The average person is just fine buying a handheld SureFire flashlight and putting it in a rail mount. The new G2X and 6PX series are a phenomenal value at only ~$60 for the tactical models, and they put out 200lumens.

 

[MrCleanOK]

I have one Streamlight TLR-1, and one Surefire X300. The Surefire has given me zero problems, has superior ergonomics, superior light output, etc. . . The only place the Streamlight beats it is on price.

That said, my TLR-1 was defective out of the box, and I have had to repair the battery contacts on the warranty-serviced unit.

I absolutely trust the Surefire to work every time. I can't say the same for the TLR-1. If I were buying a light for a fighting weapon, that would justify the difference in cost to me. If I just wanted a light to mess around with, I would go with a less expensive option.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Used and abused TLR-1s:



I've only fired about 500 rounds with it mounted, but it seems fine so far. The finish is a little worse for wear since it hangs out there and takes a good deal of muzzle blast. It works every time I switch it on, and I've used it more as a handy light than a weapon light.



If I was going to depend on one for duty, I'd go with a Surefire. The surefires Ive owned don't impress me any more so than the tlr-1s, save for the availability of better tailcap switches. There's no denying the ruggeddness of the surefires compared to others, though. I've bought a few used and sold them for profit. Can't seem to keep them. Nobody wants to buy an well used tlr-1s though

 

[thatguy96786]

Surefire lights are very expensive, but are very dependable. I have had one for around 10 years, and it is still doing the job. The only two bad things I can say about surefire lights are that 1. They suck up some batteries. 2. They are expensive. You get what you pay for.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Bought the Surfire foreend two or three years ago for Mossberg which is for home defense. Money well spent IMO. For the back up pistol, put a Surefire on it. I also have a TLR light but IMO, the Surefire feels better made.

 

[Strykervet]

I'm a big advocate of weapon lights. They go together like pancakes and syrup. Their use requires a little training to use properly though, more so than without. Because you will never need light in a more stressful situation, they have to WORK, and Surefire lights do that. I've never had one fail that didn't have a dead battery or was neglected for a long time.

I can't recall the model number, it looks like the 6P, and we were issued them in '02. They are weapon lights, they are a little different than the handheld ones in that they have the lamps shock isolated. At least the incandescent ones do.

As far as the light they produce, well, most are just a bulb with a certain rating using a "hot" CR123 battery (the Surefire batteries have more amps than average ones). A handheld is as bright as a weapon light, and a cheap one is as bright as an expensive one. Usually.

Now Surefire sent us some of the pistol grip weapon lights in the army. We regularly got to test out all the new gear, got to keep a lot of it too, provided it wasn't issued. I still have one of those $600 lights (M500?) that has the throw lever rail mount with the pistol grip/light combo. It does not have a laser, but it does have navigation lights. I can say it is VERY bright and quite tough, and it will eat up three batteries in minutes. You HAVE to put new batteries in before a mission, then use them in handhelds afterwards or for training. Is it worth $600? Absolutely not. The only reason I have it is it was free. Really only good for door kicking missions, it gets in the way for normal use, which is why the throw lever was nice... These lights are very mission specific, hence the price --if you need blinding light instantly on entry, this is it. Good for nothing else really.

I also have the Aviator something or other. It is LED, has two brightness settings, and it is WAY better than the incandescent ones I have. Too thin to mount though in a regular mount. The LED ones also don't run batteries down near as badly, conversely, they last forever.

I have a small one battery light, great for the pocket, wish it was LED though so it would last longer. Never leave without it. For CC, a weapon light is just too bulky, but one of these in the left pocket using the Harris position works great. Luckily, I haven't had to draw the weapon, but I draw the light regularly!

The X200 I have is really the best all around small weapon light. LED, bright, and tough, it also has great focus (no bright ring and dim spots like some lights, just a bright soft bluish circle with evenly distributed light). They make 'em with lasers, and these are priced just a little higher than the competition. The ad when they came out was them hammering a nail with one while it was on, don't think I'll try that with the Glock light. If you drop the coin for a pistol mounted light, this is THE one. Works well I would imagine on a rifle or shotgun too, and I think they have pressure switches. Which is what Surefire really shines on --they have a lot of accessories and something to fit everybody. They really have no peer as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Surefires are good lights, no doubt. Some of their accessories lens filter accessories are not what I would consider to be terribly great, but the lights work well.

The M500 forend I purchased about 10 years ago had a problem common to M500 forends (at least at that time) that I have found to be very annoying. It does not have a proper fit and rocks/rotates a bit around the barrel.

As for reliability, I haven't had any others that were LED fail either, however. Once light manufacturers moved away from incadescent and xenon bulbs, the reliability factor increased dramatically. The shock reduction systems that made Surefire such a reliable light, protecting the delicate bulb is now a bit old school.

If you want to spend the money for a very expensive light that will work, Surefire is a fine light.

 

[Super.45]

I have an x-300 from SF and its superb. Very well built and it holds up under everything I have put it thru. I also have their M3 combat light and its my go to light for guns without lights in a Harries postion hold. You get what you pay for. There are other lights out there and I'm sure they are good but the Sf stuff is military proven.

 

[Cosmoline]

Why not just get a $35 G3 and a pressure switch then clamp it to the barrel? What are you getting besides the extra lumens and a laser for the extra money?

Some of the high-octane lamps are so bright they dazzle *me* from light reflected back.

 

[Yo Mama]

Why not just get a $35 G3 and a pressure switch then clamp it to the barrel? What are you getting besides the extra lumens and a laser for the extra money?

I did it with a G2, and never looked back. The mounts were about 40 bucks, pressure pad I think was 15 extra from the stock tail switch. It's been on my HD shotgun for years now, and is has taken at least 500 rounds with no problems. All together it cost me 100 bucks to have a mounted light with pressure pad.

 

[swinokur]

Insight Tech makes excellent weapon lights priced between Surefire and Streamlight. They build a huge amount of stuff for DOD. I have an M6X LED ight/aser combo on my G29SF and never a problem. I actually like the tail cap switch on the Insight more than my Surefire X300 which is on my G30 The M6X is 160 lumens IIRC. They have Xenon models still available.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

SureFire lights: expensive, yes. Overpriced, no. Their lights have been to some of the worst places on earth and have come back. If only SureFire lights could tell the story of the things they've illuminated overseas. They are the best weapon lights for a reason and their customer service has always been top notch. They are one of the very few brands that I will go out of my way to buy.

 

[SentinelStrategic]

On my first deployment to the Sandbox, I had an Insight M3. The light did not survive the length of the deployment. I had lots of issues with it, and eventually it crapped out. It was out of warranty, so I was S.O.L. I was also not impressed with the light, so I really didn't care all that much. Most of the problem had to do with the polymer light housing. Since then, I have used SureFire lights with no hiccups. To say I am abusive with my lights is an understatement. I have made both Insight M series and Blackhawk Xyphos lights fail. I have yet to make a metal housing SureFire X300 or Streamlight TLR-1 fail.

 

[*NOVA*]

Surefires are good lights, no doubt. Some of their accessories lens filter accessories are not what I would consider to be terribly great, but the lights work well.

The M500 forend I purchased about 10 years ago had a problem common to M500 forends (at least at that time) that I have found to be very annoying. It does not have a proper fit and rocks/rotates a bit around the barrel.

As for reliability, I haven't had any others that were LED fail either, however. Once light manufacturers moved away from incadescent and xenon bulbs, the reliability factor increased dramatically. The shock reduction systems that made Surefire such a reliable light, protecting the delicate bulb is now a bit old school.

If you want to spend the money for a very expensive light that will work, Surefire is a fine light.

Surefire fits good on the newer Mossberg 500's - after I measured the forend I knew which model to order.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

That's good, because they used to rattle on the Rem 870. I still have one of them as well.

 

[basicblur]

From what I understand, Surefire is one o' those companies that supports/enforces MAP (Minimum Advertised Pricing)-if not for that, Surefires would be much cheaper and probably be priced close enough to some of the cheaper alternatives that more folks would buy 'em.

Too expensive for me as gun lights (mine are Streamlights), but for comparison, I did manage to dig up a Surefire E2D LED Defender and Z2-S Combat Light off eBay at below MSRP (although still 2 to almost 3 times the price of a Streamlight).

Nice lights with a nice finish, although some of the fancier stuff you may not care for (crenulated lens fer example).

Though nice, I'm sticking with my Streamlight Nightfighter LED (they have a new X model out now) for my bed gun, and while not directly an equivalent, I prefer a Streamlight PT-2L (I'm non-LEO) on my belt at all times-it's much smaller than the Surefire Defender and 'bout as bright.
The Combat Light might be nicer on your belt than the Streamlight Night Fighter since the Nightfighter has such a big donut on it, but for a bed light, I much prefer the feel of the Nightfighter.

One thing I do not like 'bout the Defender is the tailcap switch-it's buried into the crenelated tail cap, and I often end up chasing the flashlight as it slides forward in my hand as I try to activate the switch with my thumb while using a fist grip. I let a relative try it and darn if he didn't comment on the same thing without me mentioning it.

If you haven't seen it, you might find the article below an interesting read? (free download of the entire magazine)
There are numerous articles scattered throughout this issue on lights.
Have We Gone Too Far? Duty Lights-How Much Is Too Much?

 

[SentinelStrategic]

From what I understand, Surefire is one o' those companies that supports/enforces MAP (Minimum Advertised Pricing)-if not for that, Surefires would be much cheaper and probably be priced close enough to some of the cheaper alternatives that more folks would buy 'em.

SureFire does have MAP, and their reason for having it is pretty legitimate IMO. I've been working on an LE order from them, and the pricing isn't much less than MAP. If they discontinued MAP, I'm not so sure that prices would drop all that much.

Also, keep in mind that SureFire has a lot of lights that they sell to the Government and Military. Under federal law, a company cannot sell an item to the retail public (at least MSRP, I think) for less than what they sell it to the Government for.

 

[basicblur]

SureFire does have MAP, and their reason for having it is pretty legitimate…a company cannot sell an item to the retail public (at least MSRP, I think) for less than what they sell it to the Government for.

Nuttin’ like having your cake and eating it too?

Lemme see…they have a legit reason for supporting/pushing MAP since they can’t sell to the public for less than they sell to government?
Hmmmm…guess they could just sell to the government for less and that would remove the argument for keeping public prices artificially high, would it not?

If they discontinued MAP, I'm not so sure that prices would drop all that much.

There have been a number of companies in the past that pushed MAP aggressively, but competition/loss of sales seems to have gotten to a number of them. Many I’ve watched over the years have dropped/diminished the policy.
Honda and Sony are a couple that immediately come to mind-it took them (or maybe the public) a while to realize they weren’t the only game in town.

Bottom line…Surefire appears to be a quality product, but these days they’re overpriced, and as in my earlier posted experience, even Surefire products have warts.

 

[SentinelStrategic]

Nuttin’ like having your cake and eating it too?

Lemme see…they have a legit reason for supporting/pushing MAP since they can’t sell to the public for less than they sell to government?
Hmmmm…guess they could just sell to the government for less and that would remove the argument for keeping public prices artificially high, would it not?

Their reasoning for MAP isn't the government sales. Government sales may have an effect on price for some lights, but other lights are not sold to the Govt. I suspect that SureFire prices them at what they feel is an appropriate profit margin while still giving what they deem to be a fair price to the consumer.
MAP has typically been a method that manufacturers use to keep small business and large retailers on the same level. MAP prevents companies like WalMart and Bass Pro Shops from pricing so low that they force smaller companies out of the market for that product. I support this pricing, because I'd much rather buy a SureFire at Streicher's LE Supply than have to drive over to WalMart.

From the times that I've talked to my SureFire rep, I have gotten the distinct impression that SureFire's profit margins are not as much as one would expect.

MAP is still pretty prevalent in many areas. Rifle scopes, especially tactical scopes, are a good example. Those companies thrive regardless of MAP; or possibly BECAUSE of MAP.
I think that if other companies could fully compete in all the areas SureFire markets and produces, it might be a different story. However, it's hard to find a company that makes so many various weapon lights, handheld flashlights, suppressors, ear pro, and various accessories, and has their training division. SureFire basically can do whatever they want. They're kind of Top Dog in their field.

 

[JerryM]

Surefire are very high quality, but I never found the need for a weapon light for my use. I cannot imagine that I would pay $600 for any kind of light unless the gun went with it.
Jerry

 

[SentinelStrategic]

Surefire are very high quality, but I never found the need for a weapon light for my use. I cannot imagine that I would pay $600 for any kind of light unless the gun went with it.

This is not an uncommon sentiment by many people. Such is why SureFire's top selling lights are the 6P and G2 as opposed to the Lumamax or Aviator, or Millennium lights. It's a lot easier for people to justify a $60 light purchase.

 

[kingcheese]

and i thought 30 bucks for a maglight and a roll off duct tape was expensie

 

[Rubber_Duck]

This is not an uncommon sentiment by many people. Such is why SureFire's top selling lights are the 6P and G2 as opposed to the Lumamax or Aviator, or Millennium lights. It's a lot easier for people to justify a $60 light purchase.

If you do a lot of scouring forums and eBay for deals you can find good ones. I have three Aviators, three M951s and an M961, and I didn't pay over a hundred dollars for any of them. I bought one of my Aviators for 50 dollars, that was my best deal, along with two M951s, one for 65 dollars and the other for 70. My other SF lights were similar deals. I think the only SF light I paid full price for was a Z2 at the BX and even then I paid 78 dollars and I though it was pretty expensive but I needed it for work (well it didn't NEED to be a Z2 but I like it the best for handheld lights). I've scored highway robbery deals on the equipment exchange over on ARFCOM because people just need to make a quick buck and sometimes you will find too good to be true deals so I jump on them. Same with eBay. I saw an ACOG sell for $475 this week on ARFCOM. Unbelievable.

If you are buying an M900V brand-new from a SureFire distributor then yes, you will pay 700 dollars for a weapon light. But if you have patience you can find lights like the M951 at bargain prices because people are dumping the older lights in favor of the Scout Lights. I do have a Scout Light as well but it was expensive and I would rather have an M951 with a Malkoff LED than a Scout Light when dollars count, unless you have a specific need that requires the Scout Light (rail space, mounting, and weight issues).