Failed On Too Many Levels

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While it is nice to complain about politicians, the issue may be about training. Here's a take on it by a well known trainer. http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/unprepared-and-overwhelmed
He suggests, horribly, that the majority of police forces are under-trained and may have acted in the same fashion.

If you want to discuss this, let's drop pure rants. Suggesting that folks want kids to die for political purposes, is great on the Internet but it's not what we want to discuss here.
 
I'm a retired cop (the badge says retired captain - but I was only a lieutenant when I retired out...) and, although I live here in Broward county (the people's republic of Broward - and Debbie Whatsername Schultz is my congresswoman... lucky me...) I worked as a cop for 22 years in Dade county... Every election I make a point of voting - knowing that I'm in the minority and that the usual policies that I mostly disagree with - will continue on as before... The most recent election fiasco was actually entirely apart from all that... but I digress...

All of that said, most have not gotten a realistic view of what happened that day - and what the actual school setup there was... Both my kids went through Flanigan High School - which is almost a copy of the layout at Parkland... Put simply, the campus for the shooting scene is just entirely too big to have any meaningful security without at least ten officers there every day the school is open.... (both schools cover almost four blocks - with lots and lots of open areas where anyone can approach on foot..). That's the scene - now look at how many "school resource officers" that the county had assigned.... and remember for a police manager - you're not going to send your best, most productive officer to a school assignment... usually it's one of your "retired in place" type officers.... Add to that the gradual overtaking of police responsibilities by the county sheriff's office over some time... Broward - like Dade county (now called Miami Dade I believe...) is pretty much completely suburban sprawl - a patchwork of small and medium sized cities that run together so well - that it's hard for a newcomer to even begin to know what city they're in... Add to that the sheriff's office is very glad to take over policing in any small town (like Parkland...) that wants to save on taxes and is willing to accept the premise that this great big county sheriff's office will give their town special consideration... and you can pretty much guess how that works out (down in Dade county almost none of the cities there have been willing to do that -if your town doesn't have it's own police force - it gives up any real power to work on problems that really might actually need cops....).

Now you have a bit better idea of what the scene was that day (and the years leading up to it). Lots of promises by a big, not exactly five star sheriff's outfit and the reality that it's a very big populated area with lots of small towns throughout that are relying on the sheriffs to provide policing (still a number of medium and large sized cities that have kept their own policing - and by and large they actually do the job if they are aware of any problems... If I remember correctly one of them was actually the first on the scene to assist the few school resource officers already there...

Now for the candle on the cake... every officer is taught from day one to "wait for your backup" in a hazardous situation -that basic tenet is directly opposed to what needs to be done in an active shooter situation - which is to aggressively seek out and engage the shooter and limit the number of casualties no matter what the cost... I was never taught any of that (my era was 1973 to 1995 -well before Columbine and all that followed). I'd like to think that I'd respond aggressively (lord knows I did my share of foolish things on the street) but no one (and not anyone reading this unless they're a blooded combat veteran...) can be sure of how they'll react when the guns begin to sound. The great big competent officer freezes and in his (or her) panic is pretty much useless.. The small librarian type turns into a tiger and looks like Audie Murphy in action.... You can line up a 15 man squad and predict which will stand up and which will fail under terrible dangerous stressfull conditions - but you'd be surprised how it works out... That's why training in advance is so important - as well as knowing just who will be in charge when more than one agency shows up in those first few minutes -when lives really can be saved...

Now for the end of my little sermon... take a look at your own schools where you live... Is the very size of the school small enough to be manageable - are your local officers well trained and well led? Is your local political structure reasonably honest with the folks they represent - or are they whistling through the graveyard claiming abilities they don't have? Me, I figure that there are lots of potential Parklands out there - and more for all of us to learn... For officers and young supervisors - tactics in a violent scene are everything (much more important than weapons and manpower from my point of view..). Train to meet your known hazards - and train to meet the unexpected. After every (and I mean every) critical incident - have a full review (both formal and informal) at the shift level and at top management's level... Find out what went right - and what went wrong -then correct deficiencies before your next critical event.... That's how I approached it - and with every incident - we got better....
 
lemaymiami said:
I'm a retired cop (the badge says retired captain - but I was only a lieutenant when I retired out...) and, although I live here in Broward county (the people's republic of Broward - and Debbie Whatsername Schultz is my congresswoman... lucky me...) I worked as a cop for 22 years in Dade county... Every election I make a point of voting - knowing that I'm in the minority and that the usual policies that I mostly disagree with - will continue on as before... The most recent election fiasco was actually entirely apart from all that... but I digress...

All of that said, most have not gotten a realistic view of what happened that day - and what the actual school setup there was... Both my kids went through Flanigan High School - which is almost a copy of the layout at Parkland... Put simply, the campus for the shooting scene is just entirely too big to have any meaningful security without at least ten officers there every day the school is open.... (both schools cover almost four blocks - with lots and lots of open areas where anyone can approach on foot..). That's the scene - now look at how many "school resource officers" that the county had assigned.... and remember for a police manager - you're not going to send your best, most productive officer to a school assignment... usually it's one of your "retired in place" type officers.... Add to that the gradual overtaking of police responsibilities by the county sheriff's office over some time... Broward - like Dade county (now called Miami Dade I believe...) is pretty much completely suburban sprawl - a patchwork of small and medium sized cities that run together so well - that it's hard for a newcomer to even begin to know what city they're in... Add to that the sheriff's office is very glad to take over policing in any small town (like Parkland...) that wants to save on taxes and is willing to accept the premise that this great big county sheriff's office will give their town special consideration... and you can pretty much guess how that works out (down in Dade county almost none of the cities there have been willing to do that -if your town doesn't have it's own police force - it gives up any real power to work on problems that really might actually need cops....).

Now you have a bit better idea of what the scene was that day (and the years leading up to it). Lots of promises by a big, not exactly five star sheriff's outfit and the reality that it's a very big populated area with lots of small towns throughout that are relying on the sheriffs to provide policing (still a number of medium and large sized cities that have kept their own policing - and by and large they actually do the job if they are aware of any problems... If I remember correctly one of them was actually the first on the scene to assist the few school resource officers already there...

Now for the candle on the cake... every officer is taught from day one to "wait for your backup" in a hazardous situation -that basic tenet is directly opposed to what needs to be done in an active shooter situation - which is to aggressively seek out and engage the shooter and limit the number of casualties no matter what the cost... I was never taught any of that (my era was 1973 to 1995 -well before Columbine and all that followed). I'd like to think that I'd respond aggressively (lord knows I did my share of foolish things on the street) but no one (and not anyone reading this unless they're a blooded combat veteran...) can be sure of how they'll react when the guns begin to sound. The great big competent officer freezes and in his (or her) panic is pretty much useless.. The small librarian type turns into a tiger and looks like Audie Murphy in action.... You can line up a 15 man squad and predict which will stand up and which will fail under terrible dangerous stressfull conditions - but you'd be surprised how it works out... That's why training in advance is so important - as well as knowing just who will be in charge when more than one agency shows up in those first few minutes -when lives really can be saved...

Now for the end of my little sermon... take a look at your own schools where you live... Is the very size of the school small enough to be manageable - are your local officers well trained and well led? Is your local political structure reasonably honest with the folks they represent - or are they whistling through the graveyard claiming abilities they don't have? Me, I figure that there are lots of potential Parklands out there - and more for all of us to learn... For officers and young supervisors - tactics in a violent scene are everything (much more important than weapons and manpower from my point of view..). Train to meet your known hazards - and train to meet the unexpected. After every (and I mean every) critical incident - have a full review (both formal and informal) at the shift level and at top management's level... Find out what went right - and what went wrong -then correct deficiencies before your next critical event.... That's how I approached it - and with every incident - we got better....
Click to expand...
GREAT POST,and well thought out imnsho.

But after the Columbine attack I had a VERY heated discuaaion with a Lt. who was in charge of out ERT [ same as SWAT ] team.

I iinsisted that there was no way in hell that as an armed,trained,and ballisticlly protected adult that was "duty bound" [ and I still take that personally ] to enter at the risk of great bodily harm or death to myself.

I could not live with myself if I were to stand by and allow UNARMED children & teacers to die when there was at least a chance I could have fire directed at me ,instead of them.

I am not blowing smoke and I sure as hell aint brave.

But "women & children first" was how I was raised and if the "weaker sex" don't like my analogy = too bad.

After we had that LOUD 'discussion' [ argument ] it was amusing that the ROE became that you would first wait till you had 4 uniforms,THEN it was do NOT wait but enter and take on the ACTIVE SHOOTER.

If it became a hostage situation,then by all means wait the FOUR or more HOUR'S till ERT/SWAT could arrive.

Ever since the hostage/shooting in the McDonalds that took about 23 lives,I have been an advocate of ENTER and stop the attacker.

And if you know you are not able to do that " duty bound " action = go train for another job.

Its not brave,but more likely stubborn to say " NOT ON MY WATCH ".
 
Agree absolutely... the point I was trying to make is that only with some serious dedicated training will we overcome that early basic training that caution - allows the young (and not so young) officer to go home at the end of his or her shift...in an active shooter situation when the exact opposite might really save lives. Fortunately, the actual occurrence of these terrible incidents are very rare (not exactly what media and political types would have you believe... ). Nothing is helped either when large and supposedly squared away departments make claims to be able to protect their communities that they haven't trained and planned for....

In my era the big thing towards the end of the eighties was officer survival training - and we were pretty serious about it (trained everyone thoroughly - and "killed" every one that went through at least once during training.. so that they began to see just how vulnerable they were without sound tactics...). After everyone was trained up we then went over our procedures (building searches, foot chases, perimeters, - all the tactical stuff that can cost lives if ignored...). The sad thing all these years later is to hear of officer deaths that could have been avoided with better tactics. I wonder if all we learned was simply forgotten during a more peaceful era (pre 9-11) or if new generations of policing simply never taught the basics to their officers...

For anyone reading this - it applies to the armed citizen as well. Your individual tactics in a confrontation play a direct part in the outcome (the best outcome being no shooting occurred at all and you're not hurt... ). Put more directly for an armed citizen.... you only engage a bad actor when lives are on the line - yours or someone with you... Find yourself in an active shooter situation and it will be all too easy for responding officers to mistake you for their intended target... Very very bad stuff indeed. In my active early years on the street (when I was in the middle of every bad thing that I could..). I used to chant quietly to myself (while running at high speed) "look out for the cops, look out for the cops". I was afraid that I'd either get wiped out by another cruiser or shot at in a cross-fire situation by own crew.. In real life (unlike the movies and other popular entertainments) - things just get crazy and random when emotions are high, blood's been spilled and folks are coming from all over to "assist"...

Back to my original post - training and tactics are all important in an active shooter situation. To go with that, political and school authorities setting up school situations that are almost impossible to protect... that's bad stuff any way you look at it. I'm betting that there are lots of places like Parkland around the country.... Look around your own communities and encourage both school and police authorities to review their situations - and maybe make some changes before a really bad incident occurs.
 
Here you can read the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Public Safety Commission Initial Report Submitted to the Governor, Speaker of the House of Representatives and Senate President Dated January 1, 2019.

http://www.trbas.com/media/media/acrobat/2018-12/70135058816260-12074125.pdf

You will see that Parkland officials ignored 69 mental health warnings.
It is 407 pages long and will make you angry.
 
This may seem harsh, but as a former LEO I have nothing but contempt for LEO's who stand by while children are being shot. It's a difficult job and putting yourself in danger is not an easy thing, but if they couldn't do it they should have turned their badges in prior to being faced with that situation. One of the lessons we need to take from this is that under the best of circumstances, where our LEO's are competent and well trained, it still takes time for them to get to the crime scene and the victim is on their own until they get there. They'd better be able to defend themselves until help arrives. Under the worse of circumstances we see what happened in Parkland, with untrained cowards being responsible for protecting the community.
 
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lemaymiami said:
Agree absolutely... the point I was trying to make is that only with some serious dedicated training will we overcome that early basic training that caution - allows the young (and not so young) officer to go home at the end of his or her shift...in an active shooter situation when the exact opposite might really save lives. Fortunately, the actual occurrence of these terrible incidents are very rare (not exactly what media and political types would have you believe... ). Nothing is helped either when large and supposedly squared away departments make claims to be able to protect their communities that they haven't trained and planned for....

In my era the big thing towards the end of the eighties was officer survival training - and we were pretty serious about it (trained everyone thoroughly - and "killed" every one that went through at least once during training.. so that they began to see just how vulnerable they were without sound tactics...). After everyone was trained up we then went over our procedures (building searches, foot chases, perimeters, - all the tactical stuff that can cost lives if ignored...). The sad thing all these years later is to hear of officer deaths that could have been avoided with better tactics. I wonder if all we learned was simply forgotten during a more peaceful era (pre 9-11) or if new generations of policing simply never taught the basics to their officers...

For anyone reading this - it applies to the armed citizen as well. Your individual tactics in a confrontation play a direct part in the outcome (the best outcome being no shooting occurred at all and you're not hurt... ). Put more directly for an armed citizen.... you only engage a bad actor when lives are on the line - yours or someone with you... Find yourself in an active shooter situation and it will be all too easy for responding officers to mistake you for their intended target... Very very bad stuff indeed. In my active early years on the street (when I was in the middle of every bad thing that I could..). I used to chant quietly to myself (while running at high speed) "look out for the cops, look out for the cops". I was afraid that I'd either get wiped out by another cruiser or shot at in a cross-fire situation by own crew.. In real life (unlike the movies and other popular entertainments) - things just get crazy and random when emotions are high, blood's been spilled and folks are coming from all over to "assist"...

Back to my original post - training and tactics are all important in an active shooter situation. To go with that, political and school authorities setting up school situations that are almost impossible to protect... that's bad stuff any way you look at it. I'm betting that there are lots of places like Parkland around the country.... Look around your own communities and encourage both school and police authorities to review their situations - and maybe make some changes before a really bad incident occurs.
Click to expand...

I am in agreement with your posts. I am retired more than two years now. We had the training at the patrol level, lots of it. We got the AR15s, helmets, hard armor, the works. The factors that you couldn't calculate were officer self preservation, and fear. The military vets and current SWAT members were on board with the theory of stopping an active shooter. We knew if we couldn't mount an entry with more than three responding officers....if one of us was the only....we would go in alone and face the shooter. Not stupidly, but tactically, and stop the killing; a mission which I accepted.
But in the discussion, I was told plainly, by other officers, that I was an idiot, crazy, and "no way in hell" were some of the other officers sharing that viewpoint. That shook me and how I viewed some of my fellow officers.
Suggested reading: On Killing By Dave Grossman.
 
Ellifritz and other point to a lack of training and the overriding notion of 'going home at the end of your shift.' I agree that if you can't accept at least some risk of being killed in the line of duty then you should turn in your badge and take up some other line of work. There are many brave cops that put their lives on the line for the community but sadly those cops weren't on scene that day.
 
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/...douglas-commission-report-20181231-story.html

The 'Blue Ribbon' report. A lot of DUH why didn't we think about that sooner.
Now maybe the reports of odd behavior will lead somewhere. In the report there was too much "I don't remember" "I don't recall" "I have no recollection of that at all" from the folks that would have intervened on Nick Cruz behalf and nipped the buds so to speak.
 
I had an argument about entry with a college officer. He said it was his first priority to go home at the end of the day. He left and the department did a good deal of active shooter training.

In way, this reminds me of another situation. As a researcher in visual neuroscience I took a medical school class in Physiological Optics. It was populated by scientists and medical students interested in the science. However, one guy (med student) raised his hand and asked if the class would make him money in his private practice. The MD/PhD teaching the class threw him out. What's your priority when you choose a helping profession?
 
Random thoughts...

Perhaps they should post school resource officers who have kids attending the schools they are assigned to.

Replacing or hardening every school constructed "pre-Columbine" is a tall order.

My kids attend a brand new medium sized publich high school that was designed with security in mind. That won't save everyone, but hopefully it will prevent a bloodbath. Yet any teen deviant with even the smallest degree of criminal imagination knows how to pull a fire alarm.

Our small town PD has run a few excercises with the teachers on school administrative days off.... and you guessed it, all the lib-**** parents went balistic when they saw pics in the local paper of officers advancing down the hallways with guns drawn... as if they were the problem.

Ultimately, I think the mass production model of public education in massive factory sized facilities has failed on too many levels to count. If I was stuck in that type of enviroment, I'd gladly go broke paying for private education, or having my wife punt work and home school.

It's a crazy, mixed up, sin sick world.
 
P5 Guy said:
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/...douglas-commission-report-20181231-story.html

The 'Blue Ribbon' report. A lot of DUH why didn't we think about that sooner.
Now maybe the reports of odd behavior will lead somewhere. In the report there was too much "I don't remember" "I don't recall" "I have no recollection of that at all" from the folks that would have intervened on Nick Cruz behalf and nipped the buds so to speak.
Click to expand...
On the surface it appeared that the sheriffs department refused to implement national standards for dealing with active shooters that were at least 10 years old..
 
Something to remember about Columbine is that it was not a shooting plot. Shooting was their backup plan after their bombs failed to detonate. From the murderers' perspective, Columbine was mostly a failure. Their goal was to demolish the school and kill everyone inside. Sooner or later, we will see competent bomb builders.

Mass murderers use firearms because they are easy to acquire and don't require much skill when used against unarmed and mostly unresisting victims. Take away firearms and they will learn how to build weapons of mass destruction. It takes more of an effort than acquiring and shooting a gun but the necessary information is accessible. They spend months planning their attacks. Having to do some internet research isn't an insurmountable barrier.
 
A quick minor update on Parkland... A year later, still lots of passion from the families who lost members - and a strong push to replace the guy in charge of schools for Broward.... that's now deteriorated into politics with the target receiving strong support from black constituents and politicians... To further complicate matters it looks like the state will empanel a state-wide grand jury to look into school security issues around the state - with a particular emphasis on whether the folks running things got monies for additional security upgrades - but spent the money on other things, unrelated to school security.... Just a guess on my part but I imagine that sort of stuff won't be hard to find....

Most of the current and future actions on this will be comprised of finger pointing and "barn door locking" exercises from what I can see (just my opinion...). You can bet that the basic issues behind school shootings or even the possibility of them will be in the news for some time to come....
 
I wrote this a while back when this all first happened, and I think it's still applicable.

If you can't or won't do it, get another job.
Click to expand...

I think that's the most succinct way of putting it. I have no fault with him as a human being, you never know how you will react until you actually face the elephant. As a young officer in a busy part of town in a major city I found out pretty quick what kind of person I am. Unfortunately a lot of officers from small agencies never have the opportunity as a young rookie to see what kind of person they are, and they go their whole career thinking they are that kind of person, until they are suddenly thrust into a situation like this. Rather than learning this about themselves as new rookies, with a veteran by their side to limit the damage their inaction causes. Human nature is not to run to gunfire and screaming, but to run away. It takes a lot conditioning and a special personality to be that one that does run to it. Also people change, he may have been a meat eater as a younger man, and suddenly having a family who depends on him changed things. It takes a lot more introspection then you'd think to look inside yourself and walk away from your career, your livelihood, your family's means of support, on a one in a million eventuality.

This is a perfect example of why I don't think simply introducing guns into schools will be of a particular help in the future. Here was someone trained and equipped to deal with the problem, and he simply didn't go in. I don't expect an armed parent to go hunting in the halls, I expect them to take their family and get the heck out of there. I don't expect an armed teacher to go hunting, I expect them to hunker down just like toivo described in his post.

The military and LE spend a lot of time trying to instill into its members the ability to go into harms way, even when the odds are dramatically stacked against you. It's unreasonable to expect a citizen to do that. For every chest thumping keyboard commando I've read talking about how they'd have saved the day with their EDC, I know the reality is that a very very small percentage when faced with the actual prospect of facing another human being in deadly combat by making a completely voluntary choice (going in and hunting) will actually do so. On the flip side I know there are those out there who have seen the elephant (far worse then I have), and even though they may only have a 5 shot snubbie they will take the fight to the enemy with the will to prevail. If you've never ran to the sound of gunfire or the like, all you have is the hope for what you might do.
 
You respond to an active shooting at a clown convention. You're the first officer to arrive and you're alone. Your adrenaline is pumping, the political climate is going to judge you harshly whether you kill the Killer Clown or don't, but what if you shoot an innocent clown holding a squirt gun, how then will you be judged? You might lose your job, you're definitely going to lose your possessions due to civil litigation even if you win because now you owe the lawyer. Your wife divorced you and takes the kids because the town has turned against them. I've been stripped of rank and paid a fine and owed thousands to a lawyer due to unjustified use of force (not a shooting, and it was 4:1), judged by people who never stood a watch, never carried a gun and never put their lives on the line.
Ever been to a school? They mostly dress alike, like Clowns. Which Clown do you shoot, the one that's shooting or the one you thought was shooting because it's wearing a trench coat?
I completely understand officers that wait for back up.
 
There were a lot of screw ups and derelict actions at Parkland by staff, the campus security, the SRO, and the Sheriff's office. I agree with others who have said that it is a political problem now. It's now just Broward county, it's nationwide.

It's also a mindset problem. Schools are not in the mindset that it can happen here. They want to be open and inviting. We are so close all of the time to having a mass killing, and it only gets stopped due to people working in the background who can never tell the story and may only be recognized by their peers and immediate hierarchy.

Regarding LE agencies, it's a training issue. In LE you're a generalist: keep up with constantly changing laws, learn the psychology behind a suicidal party, new methods of traffic stops and places to hide drugs and new drugs, new way to file affidavits or changes to court procedure...and on and on. Somewhere in there, here is a day to train in active killer scenarios...just enough time for you to run through with a red gun (or sims if you're lucky) once. Stand around and twiddle your fingers while you wait your turn for a 3 minute scenario. It is another check mark on a long list of things to re-certify in each year.
 
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