Federal .308 cases

[giggitygiggity]

I recently reloaded some .308 ammo. I used Hornady SP bullets, 44.5gr Varget, CCI LR primers, and Winchester and Federal cases. I cycled the reloads through my Winchester M70. With the Winchester brass, I was able to work the bolt smoothly, but on many of the Federal cases, i had to really push the bolt down, sometimes even hitting it a few times. Is this
Normal for Federal brass?

By the way, I have shot loads using both the Win and Fed brass and my dies are adjusted properly. Thanks.

 

[Waywatcher]

No, not normal. Something is not right.

What is "adjusted properly" in this case?

Were the brass brand new or once-fired? Were they fired in this same M70 if fired?

 

[Whiskey11]

Hey there, first post but I found I can contribute to this I have experienced similar in my Remington 700 SPS DM in .308 using Federal Gold Medal Match ammo and in my reloaded Federal cases. Mine are not so bad that I have to physically force the bolt closed by hitting it but it is more difficult than other brass I've shot. From what I can tell mine is around the case neck. All of my brass is once fired (from FGMM ammo) through my R700 and full length sized and then trimmed. Total of 100 rounds of FGMM shot through my 700 (it's virgin, at only about 200 rounds) and I have 20 FGMM sitting here as "templates" for my reloaded ammo.

I would suggest double and triple checking your equipment to make sure it actually IS set up correctly. Forcing the bolt closed by excessive force (hitting it) is NEVER a good thing. It's not good on your bolt, nor is it good for your ammo!

I hope that is some help!

 

[243winxb]

Can't close bolt on rifle

First make sure the the sizing die is adjusted so that the shell holder contacts the base of the die when the ram is at the top of its stroke when resizing a case. This ensures that the sizing die is bumping the shoulder back as well as reducing the diameter of the case. If the shell holder does not contact the base of the die, the diameter of the case is squeezed down, making the case (and distance to the shoulder) longer.

If this does not solve the problem, return the sizing die with a couple of fired cases, and we can modify the die to suit. Our address is:

Lee Precision Inc,
4275 Hwy. U
Hartford, WI 53027.

 

[giggitygiggity]

The brass was once fired. I bought the brass online. The dies are Lee Pacesetter dies and are adjusted per instructions. The thing is that when I use Winchester brass, the rounds smoothly cycle, but most of the Federals are problematic.

 

[Innovative]

giggitygiggity ........

Measure the neck diameter on ALL your "loaded" handloads. You'll find that 99% of Federal brass is about .003" larger diameter than Winchester.

If you have a standard chamber, that should be no problem. Make sure you're trimming your brass correctly, and have your chamber examined with a bore scope.

 

[rcmodel]

my dies are adjusted properly.

Maybe they are, and maybe they aren't with that brand of brass.

Perhaps the Federal's are a little harder brass, or fired in a longer chamber then yours.
You probably just need to push the shoulder back another .001" or so.

Try screwing the sizing die down just a scooch more.
Make sure you can feel the press "bump" over at full ram travel so you can be sure you are taking all the press flex and toggle slack out and really FL sizing.

To be sure, use a candle flame to "smoke" a sized case and carefully chamber it.
Where the soot rubs off is what is tight.

rc

 

[Innovative]

There's a Better Way .....

giggitygiggity ...........

If you're in doubt about chamber clearance "at the shoulder," look into the Digital Headspace Gauge. It gets calibrated to YOUR particular chamber by zeroing on one of your fired cases.

Then just insert one of your handloads, and the gauge displays your chamber clearance at the shoulder. Then you can see how far . . . . and which way to move your resizing die. If you have a case width problem you'll be able to see it. It's not always good to bump the shoulder back farther.

The Digital Headspace Gauge is designed for handloaders, and it works on ALL different calibers - without special bushings or adapters.

 

[rcmodel]

So does a .25 cent candle.

rc

 

[Innovative]

In actual measurements ...... candle soot isn't as precise as you might think. You get what you pay for.

 

[243winxb]

If turning the die down more didn't work then maybe ............

The brass was once fired. I bought the brass online.

That is your problem. Basic rule of reloading, "only use brass thats been fired in your firerarm."But no one follows this rule. There are a few other things that might be the problem. 1.The web area has expanded and is larger then you chamber. FL sizing does not contact the web area. 2. If the other firearms bolt was not square to the chamber, the case head is higher on one side then the other. Sizing does not square up the case. Buy small base dies.

 

[UT PROSIM]

i had federal brass that did this too, my uncle gave me brass from his target 308 after he rebarreled to 260. i ended up tossing it, and going to remington brass. i never figured out why it happend so im all ears here.

 

[Innovative]

Brass thickness again ...

UT PROSIM .......

Remington brass is also thinner "at the neck" than Federal. The difference is usually only by about - .001" when measuring the neck diameter of loaded rounds.

This difference is most noticeable when used in custom chambers.

 

[Slamfire]

The brass was once fired. I bought the brass online. The dies are Lee Pacesetter dies and are adjusted per instructions. The thing is that when I use Winchester brass, the rounds smoothly cycle, but most of the Federals are problematic.

Giggitygiggity: With all the posts you have contributed and all the threads you have read, surely you are aware of the value of case gages in setting up your sizing dies?

Surely? :banghead:

I set up my sizing dies with cartridge headspace gages. As you have found, and will continue to find, brass does not always react the same when sized, and the factory sizing instructions, if followed, seldom if ever size cases to the correct dimensions.

A discussion of this can be found in this thread

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6792481&postcount=17

Being able to measure a phenomena provides a path to controlling that phenomena. If you can't measure what you are doing, then your process control is based on faith, myth, and legend.

I generally keep a Wilson case gage on the bench when I am sizing brass. I will drop the cases in the gage and it tells me if I am sizing my brass between “Go” and “No Go” on the case gage.

I have multiple target rifles in 30-06, 308 and .223. My ammunition has to fit all of the rifles of the same caliber. I cannot afford the luxury of neck sizing or partial neck sizing. As any of this ammunition may be fired in a gas gun, the brass has to be sized smaller than the chamber or I risk function issues.

I have taken my rifle chamber head space gages and dropped them in my Wilson case gages. Chamber gage "Go" corresponded exactly with "Go" on case gage, " No Go" corresponded exactly with "No Go"

Wilson gages only measure length. They are cut big between the base and the shoulder so you can drop in fired cases and get a very good chamber headspace measurement.

If you want case gages that measure cartridge headspace and "fattness", you will have to ask a gunsmith for a reamer cut gage. For gas guns, "fattness" is just as important as length.

I bought a .223 reamer cut gage from Compass Lake Engineering for $35.00. It is cut with the exact same reamer that Frank used in chambering my Space Gun. time.

If you set up your sizing die with a cartridge headspace gage, then bump the shoulder back .003" from a fired case, your brass will last a long time.

 

[unwise11]

Federal Brass is a pain isn't it?
I heard it's the worst, I am tempted to buy a box of Lapua brass, Guys on snipers hide say is doesn't need trimming very much.

 

[JDGray]

All I load is Federal GMM empties, no problems here....The brass is on 10 loads, and still going strong. I toss a few each batch with loose primer pockets, so I'm about ready to scrap the lot, but its good stuff. Turning your sizeing die down another 1/8 turn will probably fix your problem. If you dont lube the inside of the necks good, the decapping pin with pull the shoulder out, as it sizes the neck when you lower the ram.

 

[JDGray]

Federal Brass is a paint isn't it?
I heard it's the worst, I am tempted to buy a box of Lapua brass, Guys on snipers hide say is doesn't need trimming very much.

Lapua is great brass, but you still need to trim it. If you FLS, it will grow.....If you neck size only, you still will eventually need to FLS to bump the shoulder back, then it grows

What you get with Lapua, is very consistant volume, finished flash holes, and primer pockets that last longer, along with a pretty blue plastic box

 

[unwise11]

Hehe, I'm lost in the world of loading, the only thing I have successfully done is resize and prime brass.

 

[Innovative]

There's a better way .....

Federal case necks are the same thickness as Lapua cases, and the overall quality is closer to Lapua than any other brand.

I've also found that actually "measuring" YOUR brass - comparing it to YOUR particular chamber allows you easily reduce shoulder clearance far more accurately than using a case gauge.

It also reduces case run-out, improves case life, and it helps to diagnose these problems.