Federal Judge Disallows Posting Blueprints For 3D Guns

[Speedo66]

The US state dept. had forbid, then reversed itself in allowing blueprints for 3D guns to be posted online by private parties. A Federal judge in Washington state ruled that it was improper to post them, and has ruled the state dept. cannot allow them to be posted.

Here's the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/12/...ml?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Can’t read the article. I’m not going to subscribe and it won’t show without.

This seems like a first Amendment battle. People have a right to share information. Posting plans as long as they’re not classified or copyrighted by someone else is part of free speech.

Personally I’m really concerned. Our Bill of Rights is under attack and I’m not sure how we fight back. I’m in Va and I’m in shock. The proposed laws are what I’ve feared and what I’ve tried to get folks to take action to prevent.

What’s so said is the antis won’t stop. Once they enact what they propose they’ll push for more and more until we’re totally disarmed.

 

[AlexanderA]

Can’t read the article. I’m not going to subscribe and it won’t show without.

Pay wall, but you get a certain number of free articles a month. NY Times runs a count of how many times you access its content for free, each month. If you've exceeded your limit, switch to a different browser, and you should get through.

 

[mcb]

The judge can say whatever they wants and it does not matter. The plans are available on the internet, and always have been since their inception and there is very little the government can do to stop it. What we are seeing in all these tax payer wasting legal cases is the government coming to terms with the fact that they cannot regulate this type of information sharing.

The funny part is the government has done it too in the past. Back when the internet was still a "new" thing the government as part of various proposal solicitations has posted the entire M2 heavy machine gun, M9 handgun and one version of the M16 (A3 IIRC) complete TDP (Technical Data Package, more than just drawings/CAD but all the technical info to make finish and inspect) to the internet with no limit on its access. Anyone in the world at the time could have downloaded those TDP's.

 

[SSN Vet]

Just another example of unelected egomaniacs in black robes usurping the constitutionally protected and democratically elected rights of the people.

Will any body be surprised to see where this ultimately gets them?

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Can’t read the article. I’m not going to subscribe and it won’t show without.

Same here, I am curious as to what law is being violated when these blueprints are posted online.

 

[mcb]

Same here, I am curious as to what law is being violated when these blueprints are posted online.

Initially the state department shut Defense Distributed down for ITAR violations since they were putting firearms related technical data on the web were it could be access by people outside the US.

 

[hq]

It never ceases to amaze me how government officials actually think they can restrict the Internet in any way, shape or form. Even enforcement possibilities are zilch and consequences rather unlikely when data can be traced back to the Beagle Boys from Duckburg, if that.

 

[bdickens]

Another example of otherwise law abiding citizens being made into criminals by nothing more than the stroke of a pen.

 

[lysanderxiii]

Can’t read the article. I’m not going to subscribe and it won’t show without.

This seems like a first Amendment battle. People have a right to share information. Posting plans as long as they’re not classified or copyrighted by someone else is part of free speech.

Personally I’m really concerned. Our Bill of Rights is under attack and I’m not sure how we fight back. I’m in Va and I’m in shock. The proposed laws are what I’ve feared and what I’ve tried to get folks to take action to prevent.

What’s so said is the antis won’t stop. Once they enact what they propose they’ll push for more and more until we’re totally disarmed.

Unfortunately, it is not a First Amendment issue, it is a ITAR issue.

You're fine if you only email them to people inside the US . . .

 

[mcb]

Unfortunately, it is not a First Amendment issue, it is a ITAR issue.

You're fine if you only email them to people inside the US . . .

ITAR is a gross over reach by the US government IMHO. International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) is a United States regulatory regime to restrict and control the export of defense and military related technologies to safeguard U.S. national security and further U.S. foreign policy objectives. How is the plans for a single shot, potential one-shot-self-destructing pistol that was develop with no money and no IP from the US government a violation of ITAR and its actual mission. It isn't! The US government is notorious for overreaching with ITAR restrictions.

Hence the munition T-shirt:

 

[fireside44]

This seems like a first Amendment battle. People have a right to share information. Posting plans as long as they’re not classified or copyrighted by someone else is part of free speech.

How is the plans for a single shot, potential one-shot-self-destructing pistol that was develop with no money and no IP from the US government a violation of ITAR and its actual mission. It isn't! The US government is notorious for overreaching with ITAR restrictions.

"Could" be used in suicide and terror attacks. Kind of like cheap chinese red dots could be used by ISIS, for a few shots anyways. We are a beacon of freedom, until you want to freely exchange ideas related to freedom using the beacon. People have a right to share information, until we the people tell them they don't. They have a right to their guns, until we the people say hell yes we are taking your AR15. They have a right to due process until we the people think they are weird and red flag them. And if the red flagged amongst us start to put up too much of a fuss we the people will black site them and give enhanced tutorials on freedom a gallon and a volt at a time. When freedoms are malleable through legalese, as they are today, then you are no longer in a free state.

 

[wally]

If its really an ITAR issue only the State Department or new Congressional action can decide. But then Judicial overreach seems to have no bounds these days either.

I remember the munition T-Shirt and crypto controversy very well. Every year I had to complete ITAR "training" to keep current, we had "specialists" on the payroll whose job was to clear our interactions with "foreign nationals". I hated the job related overseas travel because of this.

 

[lysanderxiii]

ITAR is a gross over reach by the US government IMHO. International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) is a United States regulatory regime to restrict and control the export of defense and military related technologies to safeguard U.S. national security and further U.S. foreign policy objectives. How is the plans for a single shot, potential one-shot-self-destructing pistol that was develop with no money and no IP from the US government a violation of ITAR and its actual mission. It isn't! The US government is notorious for overreaching with ITAR restrictions.

Hence the munition T-shirt:

View attachment 871327

I am not saying the the current ITAR laws are "good", or that this instance is not an over-reach of the law as it is written.

I am stating that this is an ITAR issue and will have to be decided in a court, one way or another.

BTW, plans, blueprints, for the design, development, production, manufacture, assembly, operation, repair, and testing of firearms (which are classed as defense articles) are restricted, regardless of whether or not there was USG money or IP used to develop them.

 

[mcb]

I am not saying the the current ITAR laws are "good", or that this instance is not an over-reach of the law as it is written.

I am stating that this is an ITAR issue and will have to be decided in a court, one way or another.

BTW, plans, blueprints, for the design, development, production, manufacture, assembly, operation, repair, and testing of firearms (which are classed as defense articles) are restricted, regardless of whether or not there was USG money or IP used to develop them.

I agree it is primarily and ITAR issue though there are some state laws that they are trying to create or apply to digital firearms data. I am very familiar with ITAR, I have been working in ITAR control research fields while a grade student and in every job since. I also believe they are a bit over reaching with what they consider ITAR.

 

[hq]

If its really an ITAR issue only the State Department or new Congressional action can decide.

Can it, really? The implications of 10th amendment are often forgotten when the principles of others, mainly 1st and 2nd, are being violated by lesser legislation. These are major, profound questions. While I'm not US citizen or an expert on US constitution, I've tackled similar issues through the Charter of the UN and property rights in Finland (land ownership = a RIGHT to hunt = possession of chosen equipment to exercise the right) as a former long-time VP of NRA Finland. And, accordingly, spent countless hours of discussing these issues with US NRA high brass and lawyers informally over Weizen & Eisbein on events like IWA / WFSA Nürnberg.

To sum it up, there's no one definitive answer. It depends on how far a country can be distorted from the principles of its constitution and citizens' rights, by disregarding them or repealing them altogether. If no-one questions government actions and acts accordingly to keep them accountable for their actions, every country will inevitably eventually escalate into another soviet union.

For those who think widespread civil disobedience isn't a possible answer, remember its effects on 18th amendment.