Ferguson, MO: A New Twist?

[Potatohead]

Thanks RC.

 

[matrem]

The second ammendment, as originally intended, would erase ANY need for an overwhelming police force.
The folks, as a majority, are supposed to be not only in charge of the ballot box, but with all physical issues at hand as well.

Yet some just keep insisting on going further and further in the other direction.

 

[Red Wind]

The second amendment, as originally intended, would erase ANY need for an overwhelming police force.
The folks, as a majority, are supposed to be not only in charge of the ballot box, but with all physical issues at hand as well.

Truer words were never spoken. Follow the framers of 1791 and a police presence is needed minimally, if at all.

Society existed for eons without organized police. The turnabout has not worked out very well.

 

[Nom de Forum]

brown died because he beat a police officer so bad it caused a orbital eye socket fracture of his skull. he litterally caved in the officers skull with his fist. this is a serious injury and prompted the officer to shoot him to save his own life.

it has nothing to do with the 2nd or anything else. the officer had no choice but to shoot or be beat to death.

i dont know how many shots were fired but the fact that the officer hit brown 6 times with one eye streaming blood and possibly some degree of a concussion speaks well of his training.

have any of you ever been hit by a 300lb man? i have and i got to a gun as fast as i could and it repulsed the attack.it didnt end up fatal for either of us luckily. the mere presence of a gun ended the conflict. this was in my own home also.the attacker was a stranger.

i stand behind this cop.
i would say no member here would of done any different.

I have been away from news sources for most of the day could you tell us where there is confirmation of the injuries you report the police officer sustained? Last I heard the police had not released any detailed report of the incident.

I have a hard time believing the officer was being beat to death by an assailant that was many feet away from him when the fatal shots were fired.

 

[Nom de Forum]

matrem -

The second ammendment, as originally intended, would erase ANY need for an overwhelming police force.
The folks, as a majority, are supposed to be not only in charge of the ballot box, but with all physical issues at hand as well.

Yet some just keep insisting on going further and further in the other direction.

Truer words were never spoken. Follow the framers of 1791 and a police presence is needed minimally, if at all.

Society existed for eons without organized police. The turnabout has not worked out very well.

You guys really need to crack open some history books to understand why you would never want to go back to the days of "raising the hue and cry", "trial by combat or ordeal" and angry mobs lynching and tar and feathering. Regardless of the mistakes or deliberate abuses by American police forces of today they are marvels of professionalism and restraint compared to historical policing and much of the World's contemporary police forces. The second amendment was never conceived with the idea of enabling civilians to routinely police society.

 

[WALKERs210]

brown died because he beat a police officer so bad it caused a orbital eye socket fracture of his skull. he literally caved in the officers skull with his fist. this is a serious injury and prompted the officer to shoot him to save his own life.

Where was the information reveled as to the injuries the police offiecer received at the hand of 'Brown" . I have not read or heard any thing either written or vocal in regard to his actions against the officer.

 

[JTHunter]

Sam - with all due respect, I don't see civvies having access to MRAPs, LRADs, tear gas, flash-bangs, etc.
GRANTED, we can make our own flash-bangs but to do so is a violation of law anyway.
Police also seem to have better access to body armor (because WE are paying for it!) than we do.

 

[Red Wind]

You guys really need to crack open some history books to understand why you would never want to go back to the days of "raising the hue and cry", "trial by combat or ordeal" and angry mobs lynching and tar and feathering.

Regardless of the mistakes or deliberate abuses by American police forces of today they are marvels of professionalism and restraint compared to historical policing and much of the World's contemporary police forces. The second amendment was never conceived with the idea of enabling civilians to routinely police society.

Well,Nom, your last sentence is a sparkler!! That is simply your own opinion and I'll give you that! But I disagree. With the Second applied as intended, civilians then and today have the ability, in the vast majority of situations, to police themselves.

Bobby Peel is rolling in his grave now with my blasphemy ,but I believe it to be true.
I'd take my chances with the "old" ways. And I've read more history books then you'll ever crack in your lifetime.

Unless you are a very unusual man!

 

[Nom de Forum]

Well,Nom, your last sentence is a sparkler!! That is simply your own opinion and I'll give you that! But I disagree. With the Second applied as intended, civilians then and today have the ability, in the vast majority of situations, to police themselves.

Well, Red Wing your use of the word sparkler is not very illuminating of what your agreement or I suspect disagreement is with my statement of fact. I suspect you disagree and I would really like you to provide historical references supporting the 2A being conceived with the idea of civilians needing it for routine police duties.

Bobby Peel is rolling in his grave now with my blasphemy ,but I believe it to be true.
I'd take my chances with the "old" ways.

“Bobby Peel is rolling in his grave”, really? Peel was wearing diapers when the 2A was conceived, but certainly would be appalled at your support for the “old” ways. I gotta believe you must be pulling our legs with such nonsense.

And I've read more history books then you'll ever crack in your lifetime.

Unless you are a very unusual man!

That is certainly presumptuous of you, but you are right I have never “cracked” a history book. I do have a lifetime habit however of reading mostly non-fiction and specifically books written about history every week (currently “Roosevelt’s Secret War” by Persico). Nothing to unusual about that, millions of people do that. I am now nearing retirement age so I have been doing it for a while. What is not unusual is a man who implies he is “unusual” but really means “special” because he misperceives he does something few others do. Get over yourself, and while you are doing that post some references to support your contention that the 2A is about civilians being enabled to preform routine policing duties. Please don’t post any Posse Comitatus nonsense as that has nothing to do with routine police duties.

 

[SuperNaut]

I commented on this "line of thought" over on the NYT opinion pages. I think that if the police are in an open arms race with Constitutionally protected legally armed citizens then there is something very wrong with this country and something even worse is wrong with our police force.

 

[Red Wind]

“Bobby Peel is rolling in his grave”, really? Peel was wearing diapers when the 2A was conceived, but certainly would be appalled at your support for the “old” ways. I gotta believe you must be pulling our legs with such nonsense.

Yeah, Nom , I was just puling your fractious, contrary, it's my way or the highway leg! Now we'll just have to agree to disagree on this and even though Bobby was 3 years old in 1791, he much later had a big hand in organizing the Brits police force, so he'd still be rolling..

And try not to use the word nonsense so often. You become boring and repetitious. I knew I'd get your self centered dander up with unusual! Gotta laugh at the egocentricity.

Now take 2 Advil, try to get a good nights sleep and Posse Up for more historical reading in the morning! Wow, Roosevelt's Secret War. Sounds like a scorcher!

And it's Red Wind, but Red Wing, a noble Chief ,will do!

Citations are not need needed . Just common sense. Try that as you edge in a hopefully blissful retirement. My blessings.

 

[Jenrick]

My question, are automatic weapons definitely, 100% better (more lethal) than semi autos? Is their a real advantage to fully automatic? Ive never been in a war zone but it seems semi auto is not the worst thing in the world and could possibly advantageous, by conserving ammo, and making more well placed shots. Is my thinking wrong here? Like maybe it's hard to make "well placed" shots when you're getting shelled by fully automatic fire?

Or to try and not get to far out of THR bounds here, how big is the strategic "gap" between semi auto and full auto?

Very little advantage in the VAST majority of situations. My agencies tactical unit does issue FA rifles, why? Because they are what's in the arms room, and you can SBR them without having to do any paperwork (which is a whole different ball of tactical wax). Do they ever switch them over to "Auto"? Only to qualify.

Also officers injuries: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

As far as historical policing, we don't even want to go back to policing in the 1960's (or even 90's in some parts of the US). Talking to old timers, "normal" cop work was basically a laundry list of federal civil rights violations these days. And no one thought twice about it.

-Jenrick

 

[Red Wind]

Where was the information reveled as to the injuries the police offiecer received at the hand of 'Brown" . I have not read or heard any thing either written or vocal in regard to his actions against the officer.

This ABC report details Darren Wilson's purported injuries.

FERGUSON, Mo. (ABC News) - The Ferguson police officer who shot and killed an unarmed teenager suffered “a serious facial injury” in the altercation before firing the fatal shots, according to a source close to the officer who spoke to ABC News today.

The characterization about Officer Darren Wilson being injured in his confrontation with Michael Brown emerged on the day that a grand jury was expected to begin hearing evidence in the shooting.

 

[Cee Zee]

Full auto fire is very hard to control accurately without extensive training & experience using it.

I've never found it hard to control any full auto weapon I've fired. I was prepared to have bullets spraying everywhere the first time I tried on a full auto but it just didn't happen. I started out with short bursts but quickly moved on to full mag firing. I suppose a weapon that wasn't balanced well, had a high muzzle flip or just plain climbed on you could be hard to hang onto. But none of the many full autos I've fired were like that. But then I'm one of those 300 pound guys so maybe it's just me.

BTW there have been "reports" that the officer in Ferguson received a busted eye socket and other reports that there is proof that the victim had his hand on the officer's pistol. But those are just "reports" and have not been part of any official documents. I for one am not going to rush to judgement here but the autopsy did say the victim was shot from close range on the final shot that killed him. Not from a distance and not in the back. Again these are "reports" only. I won't try to inflame the situation like so many others have done. I just know we can't submit to mob rule. That's the exact thing being discussed in this thread when we talk about how things were when the populace thought they were the police. I wouldn't want the NBP enforcing the law any more than I wanted the KKK doing it.

 

[Field Tester]

They are referring to a Huffington Post article by Adam Winkler posted August 19th.

He is off the deep end for Gun Control and is using this issue to push for more gun control. The comments section generally views him as an "air head".

This isn't the same guy who thought ear plugs were rubber bullets a few days back is it?

 

[Sav .250]

"Gleaning" and drawing conclusions, are one thing. The facts, which hopefully will be forth coming, will set the course for what happened.

 

[Sam1911]

I'm going to call this done. For one thing, the original question has been answered -- dismissed as a flight of biased ignorance by the writer, which shouldn't stand up even to his own pals' scrutiny.

And now we're speculating about the facts of the case -- which is not our purpose at THR.



And debating whether (heaven FORBID!) the citizens should be enacting law enforcement duties.