fffg VS ffffg

[gmaster805]

I found an old can of "GOEX clear shot BP substitute FFFFg". I shoot a Ruger Old Army and was wondering if the GOEX was useable? Maybe I should have posted this in the old army club but I am not a member there yet (no pictures). but if any one can help I am open to your thoughts.

Thanks

 

[4v50 Gary]

FFFF is very fine. I'd go with very light charges and certainly not 25 grains. I'd stick with 20 grains max (guys, correct me if I'm wrong). The Ruger Old Army is tough, but I'd hate to invite a mishap.

BTW, I'm not a ROA club member either and I bought the one I have back in '77 from Gil Hebard in IL. Like yourself, I never posted a picture for membership.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Yeah be careful with that stuff! It's usually for priming pans on flintlock guns and for use in small caliber pocket pistols. Get you some FFFG or FFG for use in your ROA!

 

[Mike OTDP]

20 grains should work fine. I'd try 15 or so. Thee's no need to beat your hand up to shoot good groups, unless you're shooting a smoothbore.

 

[gmaster805]

got my ROA new in Bloomington, IL in "83" has seen hundreds of rounds since. Generally use FFFg @ 20gn with GOEX this fine I guess I should use a greased patch to take up some space? What about using the 4Fg in 45 Colt "cowboy" loads for my conversion cylinder?

 

[AbitNutz]

Boy here we go again. The ROA owners manual states that you can use any grain size you want...and as much as you can fit in it.

I can personally tell you that is the absolute truth. I have packed upwards of 45+ grains of Swiss 4F in a deepened ROA cylinder and shot half a dozen cylinders full.

I don't use it over 3F because it is so fine it can trickle down through the nipples. It also tends to "dust" up when you pour it in the chambers.

It makes a really big boom and is a real hoot to shoot but accuracy is "iffy". However, I would have no problem in shooting max loads of 4F in this pistol all day long...

 

[Patocazador]

Decades ago Sam Fadala recommended 4F for use in an Old Army. He said that Ruger officially OK'd his loads.

I have used it and found the same thing as AbitNutz, the loads were not very accurate and the powder dribbled out of the nipples.

 

[AJumbo]

Sam Fadala is an enabler, LOL!
I never loaded less than full chambers of 4f in my ROA; I wanted all the velocity I could get, so I figured if I wanted less performance, I'd load the more readily available 3f. I managed to score some .457 balls that had a 4 or 5% tin content, and they were actually pretty accurate with 4f loads. I even went to the trouble to cut up some 3/8" round pieces of flash paper in a semi-successful attempt to defeat the trickle-through problem, but all in all, 4f was more trouble than it was worth.

Funny how I have yet to try 777, or even feel the need to so do; for those who have, what's the performance gap between in and 3f or Pyrodex P? Enough to abandon the use of 4f?

 

[AbitNutz]

A full chamber of T7 has more snap than a full chamber of 4FG...

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

If you're intent of burnin' it through the ROA, you could always put a few grains of FFFG in first topped off with the FFFFG so it doesn't leak out the nipples everywhere you go.

 

[BullRunBear]

It should be safe enough but using such a fine powder would be a pain, as noted above, and waste of powder. I've tried 2F, 3F and 4F in my ROAs and got the best results with 3F. Since you have 4F powder, why not use it as an excuse to get a flintlock?

BTW, you can post questions to the ROA Club even if not a member. Of course, if you do join it will prove you are a morally superior person.

Jeff (ROA Club member # 19)

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

...Since you have 4F powder, why not use it as an excuse to get a flintlock?

I suspect that may have been your subconscious mind's plan the whole time.
Don't fight it, embrace it.

 

[Hellgate]

I was unaware that CLEARshot came in the 4F configuration. I've shot their 3F in revolvers and it is about the same as real BP for power or maybe even a little slower. As was said before, shooting any granulation in a ROA is no big deal.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Hmm...If you get a flintlock, don't bother with 4F as priming. Go directly to Swiss Null B. Do not pass go, do not accept substitutes. It's about 7Fg...and lightning fast ignition.

 

[Ron T.]

As 'most everyone "into" black powder, muzzle-loading rifles knows, FFFFg is strictly a priming powder for use in the frizzen-pans of flint-lock rifles. Goex, Swiss and 'most of the other powder manufacturer's plainly spell-this-out and they MAKE the powder, so they MUST know what they're talking about.

Why take ANY "chances" in damaging your black powder rifle or pistol by using any brand of FFFFg as a powder with which to shoot projectiles outta your rifles or pistols?!?

A pound of FFFFg is worth what... maybe $15 to $27 at most depending on the brand of powder? But your gun is worth several times that figure and your hand and/or your eye-sight's value is beyond ANY possible value of either the powder or the gun !~!~!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[swathdiver]

Nowadays 4Fg is touted as a priming powder only. Older ROA manuals show that 4Fg is perfectly fine to use. In fact, SWISS 4Fg is very close to 1860s Hazard Pistol Powder.

That being said, you only need about 1/10 of powder to conical weight. For a 250 grain conical, 25 grains of powder.

One could load their ROA full with 4Fg and not hurt it at all, but what's the point? It will not be more accurate.

I have fired my Pietta Remington Belt Model sixgun with 4fg and conicals with good results but not really any better then a little more 3fg.

 

[short barrel]

4F is for priming, but it will work fine in the ROA. Too much pressure is the only issue with 4F, but you can't stuff enough black powder of any granulation into a ROA to make it unsafe. However, accuracy will suffer.

19 to 20 grains of 3F is the best for accuracy in the Old Army, but fill the cylinder for hunting purposes. A full cylinder of 3F is almost identical to a standard velocity .38, which will kill any small game and will do in a pinch if you get a close shot at a deer.

 

[gmaster805]

The essence of stupid is not asking questions that could hurt you or someone else. I didn't know so I asked. There is no need to cast aspersion's unless you need to do it to make yourself feel superior. No the shoe dose not fit my foot. Look to your own shoes.


Thank the moderator for editing the "snark". It affirms that we all should be civil here and there is no stupid questions only stupid comments.