Finally!! Swiss SIG P75

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Combloc1

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I've been trying to get hold of an example of this pistol for over 25 years now since first seeing one in a 1977 edition of "Small Arms of the World" and today I finally brought one home; and it's even an early version with the Type 1 slide! The problem is, because P75's are still current issue, they aren't available as surplus. The only avenue I'm aware of is through a retired Swiss serviceman who bought his issue sidearm upon leaving the service. That's a little hard being that I'm on another continent! Now, I could just buy an old P220 in 9mm and, in fact, I already own a couple Browning marked ones from 1977. But if you want a Swiss issue P75, none of those will scratch that itch. The crazy part is, the P75 isn't even actually made in Switzerland even though it' marked as if it were. No, the reality is that, for all intents and purposes, each and every "SIG" marked P75 issued was actually produced at J.P. Sauer & Sohn in Eckernförde Germany. The Swiss may have stamped and or assembled them (these is some controversy as to just how much of what was done where and by whom) but the Germans pretty much did all the production that mattered. So, the only really unique thing about owning a P75 versus a late 1970's 9mm Browning BDA or P220 marked "Made in W. Germany" is the Swiss markings. But to a guy like me who loves all things Swiss military, that's a big unique thing! Let's take a look!


Here's the left side in all it's worn in glory:
P1160688_zpstbalqzsz.jpg
Notice the intricate curves and contours at the rear of the ejection port and the fine slide serrations. Nobody is sure exactly how many P75's were made but somewhere around the 12,000 serial number mark, they started simplifying the slide and it changed aesthetically but not mechanically but I'll get into that later in a separate thread. For now, just check out that cool "SIG" logo at the front of the slide. I get absolutely giddy looking at that!!


In fact, here's a close-up of that:
P1160706_zpskks0huhm.jpg
And check out the nice wear above the SIG mark. Yeah......that's good stuff!! My funky fingerprint seen at the muzzle and the fleck of funk ahead of the logo....that's not good stuff though. Oh well.


Here's the right side:
P1160689_zpsqec5jcoo.jpg
The serial number on this contract started at 1,000,000 so this is number 10, 423. It is stamped on the frame, slide and barrel. The "A" prefix stands for "Armee" so we know this is military issue, not police or some other service. At the bottom rear of the trigger guard is a "P" stamp. This essentially means "Privat" or "Private" indicating that it has been sold to the man it was issued to and is now no longer government property. Also visible are proof marks at the muzzle and on the barrel. Let's take a closer look at those.


Here are the two proof marks at the muzzle:
P1160700_zpsi2gmenuv.jpg
The one closest to the muzzle is the firing proof denoting that the pistol has been tested with an overpowered charge and passed. The rear mark is the military/government acceptance mark saying "yep, looks good, we'll take it!!"


The barrel has another firing proof mark behind the serial number:
P1160696_zpsdxgmb6au.jpg


Atop the rear of the slide is the Swiss property mark:
P1160701_zpsg5dtfkst.jpg
Yummy yummy good!!! I love me some Swiss property marks.


At the front of the slide, we see the neato humps only seen on Type 1 and Type 2 slides (I call them humpbacks):
P1160684_zpsgtzdgpyb.jpg
The P75 is on bottom. Stacked on top is a Browning marked BDA dated 1977 for comparison. These slides are formed from stamped steel, NOT machined from a block.


Here's what those humps look like on the inside:
P1160683_zpsz0zpo2dc.jpg


As an added bonus, it came with the proper holster:
P1160694_zpsxjrwgcmq.jpg

P1160695_zpsmrpuzilg.jpg
The holster is dated 1977. If I'm interpreting the markings on the inside of the grips properly, they were made in May of 1977 which would be about right given the serial number so I have every confidence this was the holster that was originally issued with this particular pistol. Unfortunately, the troop tag is not present on the back of the grip but that's ok. I'll eventually get one that does have the tag.


This P75 shows some evidence of holster wear which I find to be most excellent! I like patina. In addition to the imbued History already present wear means I can also take it to the range without worrying about new scratches as they just tend to blend in. But internally, there is very little wear present so I expect this to be a wonderful shooter.

Well hecks!! I just lost connection to my picture service. I'll finish this up once it decides to work again! I'll be back.
 
Very NICE!!!


Yay! Service is back. As I was saying, it's clear this P75 saw a lot more holster time than firing time as the following pictures show.

Grips removed:
P1160650_zpsb3ywlobv.jpg
P1160651_zpsbnsblbeg.jpg


Notice how little wear there is on the steel locking block:
P1160669_zpshgwc8yzf.jpg


Right rail showing almost zero wear. Left side looks the same:
P1160670_zpsgq0rvhec.jpg


Exterior of barrel:
P1160707_zpseb8jyari.jpg
P1160708_zpsfvwmbcot.jpg
Notice that they omitted the "SIG-SAUER" script normally always present on the left side of the chamber.


Crown:
P1160711_zpsknkwbq0k.jpg
P1160713_zpslpab3qij.jpg



Rifling in general:
P1160714_zpss2fkz60t.jpg
P1160715_zpstlyagtil.jpg


Breach:
P1160717_zpsmqdy5p0i.jpg



If you're interested in buying one of these for yourself, check out Edelweiss Arms. As far as I know, these folks are the only place bringing in P75's and only at a trickle. I mean, how many Swiss dudes bought their P75 when they retired? And how many of those dudes are willing to let the one they bought go? Consider both of those factors and you most likely come up with a very small number. So, if you want one, grab it while you can. They won't be around forever. I don't get anything for this and Edelweiss doesn't even know I'm writing this but I have to say, in my experience, they have been excellent to deal with and they ship fast too. If you like Swiss firearms, you owe it to yourself to check 'em out.
Alrighty. That's it. I have another one of these on the way but it has a Type 2 slide. I'll probably do a short write-up comparing the two and throw the BDA's in there too for giggles. In fact, I'll probably just add it to this thread in the interest of efficiency. So, until then, I'll leave you with this thought. Never give up on that grail gun you've been wanting for forever.....you just might find one.....or even two! Thanks for your time!
 
Good stuff!! There is another slide design between those with the serrations of the earlier and the forward contours of the later. I have one of those on order and will post it once I have it.
 
Good stuff!! There is another slide design between those with the serrations of the earlier and the forward contours of the later. I have one of those on order and will post it once I have it.
Yeah, it was a transitional slide that wasn't used all that long.
 
Beautiful P75, a friend just picked up a brand new 210 target

Just watched Ian from forgotten weapons, on the history of sig pistols including yours.
 
Combloc1: said:
These slides are formed from stamped steel, NOT machined from a block.

I always see a difference when I compare my P228 with the stamped steel formed slide to my newer M11-A1 with the machined slide. Nothing really wrong with the newer gun, but the P228 always just balanced in my hand just a bit better.

A 9mm P220 would work so well alongside my P6, I could have had one of these back when they were in all the local gun stores. Another one, in addition to a West German P226 to keep looking for.

OP, well done, well done write up by you!:cool:
 
Combloc1

Very cool! Have never seen one before til today! Great photos and I like the holster that came with it! Thanks for sharing!
 
I finally got around to taking some pictures of a second P75 I bought from Edelweiss arms, this time with what I call a Type 2 slide:
P1160829_zpsjbrx7jml.jpg

P1160826_zpsyky2kug4.jpg


What in the yates is a Type 2 slide you ask? Actually, you probably aren't asking that but I'm gonna tell you anyways. Somewhere in the 12,xxx serial number range (11478 is a Type 1 and 13110 is a Type 2) they decided to start simplifying the design of the slide. Whether they did it to save money, time, both or just because they wanted to I have no idea. What I do know is, they did it.
Ok.....what did they do? Below is a right side view of a Type 1 slide (top) and a Type 2 (bottom):
P1160767_zpstksjyo0e.jpg
What we are looking at is the contour stamped into the frame that starts below the section port and runs forward and underneath the serial number. On the earlier slide, it is more "elegant" (for lack of a better word) and it has a gentle radius both at the top where it transitions into the thinner part of the slide above and at the bottom where it transitions into the wider, lower part of the slide that rides over the frame rail.
On the later slide, that contour is a much simpler flat surface which has relatively sharp edges where it transitions. It almost looks like the entire thing is ground into the slide rather then stamped into it. For all I know it is as I'm no expert on how these things were made. Whatever the case, it has a more industrial, no nonsense look. This same contour is still seen on the Sig Sauer pistols made today.


When we look at the left side, the change is even more obvious:
P1160766_zps3fkb9fvn.jpg
The way the light is hitting the contour being discussed really illustrates just how much this area was simplified. BUT, notice that the grasping serrations remain unchanged on the Type 2; both slides have 19 serrations.


Later, an even more simplified Type 3 slide was adopted which dropped the number of serrations down to 12. The Type 3 serrations are more aggressive too for a better grip when charging the pistol. At the same time, other changes were adopted all of which were cosmetic in nature. Switchover to the Type 3 took place somewhere between serial numbers 19205 - 22631 and, to my knowledge, there were no other changes to the 220 slide until the all milled version was adopted. Unfortunately, I do not currently have an example of a 220 with a Type 3 slide but I do have a P6 (German Police issue 225) which is essentially nnothing more than a shortened 220. It'll do for comparison purposes:
P1150576_zpsswxtpvzi.jpg

Z2b2BIF%20-%20Imgur_zpsakex5tfr.jpg
It is important to note that as far as I know, there were never any changes mechanically speaking. All changes were aesthetic only. Also, as far as I can tell, the barrels, frames, recoil assemblies, everything on a Type 1, 2 or 3 is absolutely identical other than the slides.


From above, the Type 1 and 2 are identical:
P1160768_zpsz5qxfc6n.jpg
When the Type 3 was adopted, the humps were omitted and replaced with the simple flat area we typically see on a 220.


While we're at it, let's look at a few other things on this Type 2 P75:
The holster that it came with is identical to the one that came with my earlier pistol save for the rivet pattern on the back. That probably has less to do with a design change and more to do with the fact that a different contractor made it. This particular example was made in 1976:
P1160769_zpsa3v3nmas.jpg


As with the earlier pistol, the rails show nearly zero wear:
P1160771_zpsm1ils5l7.jpg

P1160773_zps5zrirycz.jpg


I did not clean the Automatenfett (fancy-dancy Swiss grease) off of this Swisstol prior to photography. This way, I have a record of how it was lubed up when imported from the promised land.
Lots of pretty grease on and behind the locking block:
P1160775_zps6rk7zr15.jpg


Along the bottom of the breach block/slide insert:
P1160776_zpsayub3wfi.jpg


In and around the front bushing:
P1160777_zps89wup0fa.jpg


On the hammer/firing bits:
P1160781_zpsijinh2cy.jpg


On the feed ramp and in the chamber:
P1160779_zpsb6amtphp.jpg


And in the bore itself:
P1160778_zps7l7onrlu.jpg
While I couldn't capture it in pictures, everything on the inside is slick, apparently because everything has a light coating of that beautiful Swiss grease. I wonder how that stuff would do in my Honda engine......just kidding.
 
Continuing with this Swisstol, here are the date codes inside the grips:
P1160763_zpso1qnuart.jpg
On the left, we see one dated April of 1978 that was most likely mounted when it left the factory. The one on the right was probably a replacement as it is dated July 1981. When I say "April" and "July" that is an assumption based on the number of pips surrounding the year. I could be wrong and, in fact, I usually am, but I don't think so in this instance. Just like on many Swiss rifles, sometimes you find a troop tag affixed. On the rifles, it's under the butt plate. On the P75, it's found here, under the grips. This one doesn't have a troop tag but I'll make sure my next one does.



Here, we see some remnants of Automatenfett at the rear of the trigger bar:
P1160765_zpsnvfmy2eu.jpg

When these things left the factory, this whole area was slathered in grease. Here are two pretty much new Browning BDA's from 1977 showing what I am talking about:
P1160665_zps4yiye77h.jpg


For whatever reason, the left side of the mechanism never got all that:
P1160662_zpsmxcdunp7.jpg
The above picture is of the same BDA's but I would assume it is germane to the P75 as well.


Someone asked me about the import mark. It is cleanly done on the bottom of the dust cover:
P1160799_zpsz1ipksrc.jpg
Yeah, it blows that it's gotta be on there but at least it's first class workmanship.
 
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