Firearms confiscated by TSA

[labnoti]

We do know that gun bans on commercial airlines created an opportunity for terrorists on 9/11/2001 and many times before then. Armed pilots and pseudo-anonymous sky marshals can be expected and targeted. The most practical deterrent is armed people among the passengers -- same as it is everywhere else.

It does not seem likely that I will ever fly on a commercial flight domestically again. It's not just the TSA restrictions, but the airlines themselves have grievous policies and they badly mistreat human beings. There is really nobody that will miss them or feel bad for their demise following the present crisis. The people they employ will rightly resent the interruption of their career, but I'm sure they will have mixed feelings about the failure of the employers they are all too familiar with. It's a good riddance of a corrupt, greedy, immoral, and nasty industry. I hope it is re-invented in a way that respects the rights and liberties of human beings.

 

[Drail]

Exactly right. I haven't flown on a commercial aircraft since 9/11. The TSA has never stopped a highjacking because the terrorists will not highjack a commercial flight again. They don't need to. They proved our security is incompetent and nothing has changed. There are so many other ways they can hurt us. The purpose of the TSA has always been only to convince dumb people to "feel safe" by giving up their freedom. The terrorists didn't do that - our Govt. did.

 

[Jack B.]

The lesson here is. How can you possibly forget where you have a gun? Loaded or not.

 

[Elkins45]

Back before the 2008 financial mess the state of KY used to hold surplus auctions once a month and I attended several. One common feature at every auction was 3-4 cardboard boxes filled with knives and tools. I was told these were the items surrendered to TSA at airports in the state. There were hundreds if not thousands every month. All of them were garbage. I later found out they pull the good ones and auction them on eBay.

We have a law here that seized guns must be sold and not destroyed, but the auction put on by the State Police is only open to FFLs. I don’t know if TSA surrenders make it into that auction.

Guns seized by Fish and Wildlife are auctioned to the public. Most sell for more then they would new. Auction fever is a real thing.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Wow. I didn't know they routinely steal from people's belongings. Some items of jewelry as special to people beyond their monetary value. People should keep them with their carry on bag.

Back in the early 'aughts, Miami was well known for inside job theft rings of specialized equipment used by scuba divers transiting through that airport to and from Caribbean destinations. My wife & I always kept our regulators, dive computers, and camera equipment in our carry-on baggage which almost always caused issues at midwest departure airports. Frequently TSA agents telling us we couldn't take our regulators in carry-on baggage because they could be used as bludgeons despite us showing hard copy printout of these items being OK in carry-on baggage from the TSA web site, and one delaying us well over an hour swearing my wife's diving mask tested positive for explosives until eventually a supervisor arrived (this was first flight of the morning). The supervisor ran her own test patch, looked at the results, and immediately cleared us with 15 minutes left before our gate was due to close in Cleveland. Many agents delaying us looking through our checked baggage demanding to know where we had hidden our CO2 cartridges for our buoyancy compensates (none used for such), for our shark darts (never owned nor needed any), and BFK shark knives in our carry-ons (smaller knives and EMT shears in case of old monofilament line entanglements underwater were always in our checked baggage). Much less what dive computers with printed circuit boards inside and clock face displays above water were.

We were some of the earliest customers of TSA approved luggage locks, purchased from businesses whose links were directly on a section of the TSA web site, as we were both away from home on domestic business travel by air the week of 9/11, and had leisure air travel reserved before that over the 2001 Thanksgiving holiday period. The existence of those much less existence of and dissemination of master keys to TSA offices is still far from universal and argumentative agents to deny our ability to use to this day is far from universal. We always carried hard copy printouts of appropriate pages of the TSA web site with us including now when portable electronic devices like smart phones exist.

It has absolutely been a very real thing for inside job specialized equipment theft rings in the past and there's zero reason with any degree of intellectual honesty to expect all such have been or ever will be caught.

Having said all that I'd say around 80% of TSA personnel my wife and I have dealt with have been OK, but the other 20% aren't just a little bit below par, it's an abysmal gulf between their performance and minimum expectations. Both our jobs required significant domestic air travel and some international business travel on top of our leisure travel so we're more than a little bit experienced with such interactions.

 

[Speedo66]

A few people here have accused TSA employees of stealing items from their checked luggage. I don't know if that's true, but I can tell you things were disappearing from luggage long before the TSA came into existence.

The airline employed luggage handlers, working out of the public eye, did a mighty fine job of disappearing valuables out of luggage all on their own. Same for cargo handlers.

It was pretty common in the bars around Kennedy Airport to find airline employees selling swag.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

A few people here have accused TSA employees of stealing items from their checked luggage. I don't know if that's true, but I can tell you things were disappearing from luggage long before the TSA came into existence.

The airline employed luggage handlers, working out of the public eye, did a mighty fine job of disappearing valuables out of luggage all on their own. Same for cargo handlers.

It was pretty common in the bars around Kennedy Airport to find airline employees selling swag.

I don't believe that excuses TSA agents with direct access to opening locked checked luggage participating in such theft rings any more than military service members past, present, or future engaging in illegal arms and / or explosives sales because other members of society have done so, but evidently YMM, and does, V.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...firearms-and-explosives-for-export-to-mexico/

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/soldier-indictment-guns-explosives

That isn't the first time this has been noted. Years ago members of a specific gang enlisted in a National Guard unit and were caught selling military weapons to at least one cartel.

 

[Speedo66]

I'm just curious where in my post you found a statement by me excusing TSA agents of anything, let alone participating in theft rings?

My point was airline employees were doing a good job rifling through luggage on their own before TSA came to be.

 

[Trey Veston]

Tragically stupid story that cemented my decision to leave government service...

FBI agent goes to airline ticket counter and shows his credentials and informs them he's carrying a sidearm. They fill out a form, hand it to him, which he takes to the security line and shows to the screener at the metal detector.

Agent goes through the metal detector and sets it off. He's waved through. His carry on bag goes through the X-ray machine and gets flagged for having a pocket knife in it. Different screener takes him aside and tells him he can't bring knives on the plane. Agent shows him his waiver for his sidearm and shows his credentials. Screener is adamant that the waiver is for the sidearm and not the knife. Sorry, you have to surrender it. Supervisor gets involved. IIRC, the agent actually surrendered his knife; probably so he had a hilariously stupid story to tell later.

This happened at the next nearest airport to mine, so I didn't see the idiocy firsthand and was relayed to me by my dad, who was a friend of the agent.

That is the kind of thinking that I witnessed multiple times while employed by the government.

 

[Mk VII]

The baggage handlers used to steal on a massive scale at London Heathrow, (Thiefrow, they used to call it) and the union was on board with it, too, so if anyone so much as looked at them they used to come out on strike.

 

[walterelm]

I think that in the US confiscated cars homes weapons are sold on auctions ...

 

[FlSwampRat]

I had a Bench Made folder on me that I didn’t check.

I have a very old Klein folding electrician's knife that is my eedc (edged every day carry). It's very sharp and handy for cutting up cardboard cartons to Frankensteining them for shipping odd stuff. In a pawnshop stuff is rarely in the original carton.
Anyway, one night Mrs. Swamprat and I were going to a hockey game and I forgot my Klein. I've had it for over 25 years and it came out of a lost in pawn toolbox so the gods only know how old it really is and I'm kinda fond of it. It was a hike if I wanted to take it back to the car and we were only going through the metal detector/wand thing, anyway. I tucked it behind my belt buckle, crossed my fingers and didn't get tagged.
Lucky me, I'm more careful now.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I'm just curious where in my post you found a statement by me excusing TSA agents of anything, let alone participating in theft rings?

My point was airline employees were doing a good job rifling through luggage on their own before TSA came to be.

I'd like to see where I posted that as well, can you point that out using the "Quote" feature because I can't see where I did so and I honestly doubt anyone can. Let me know when you get that done because in addition to me not being able to see I posted that, I definitely don't remember doing so. I don't see anything in my post you're evidently resonding to where the words "baggage handlers" appear except in your post which I used the "Quote" feature on.

My point is being TSA certainly didn't prevent some such baggage handling employees engaging in such activity nor their own in all cases. Nor that the existence of TSA stopped all such activity by baggage handlers after they were initially formed and deployed.

Did you? I don't see that either.

I also don't know much about items going missing from luggage with locked TSA-approved locks vs luggage with no locks at all. Do you? I've always basically understood those locks keep honest people honest short of the whole piece of luggage going missing. Same as the luggage locks I used before only locks TSA approved were required for checked luggage which were obsoleted after creation of the TSA.

Both were a step up than the cable ties I used between locks on checked bags were disallowed and I purchased newly available TSA approved luggage locks. Any appropriate sharp object would serve as a skeleton key for those.

 

[Jim Watson]

I still hated myself for patting down old men in wheelchairs

My one flight since 9/11 I WAS that old man in a wheelchair. The TSA agent was quite cordial as he shook me down.

For that matter, so was the TSA supervisor who dealt with my friend mentioned above. I thought the city cop was pretty gruff, but the poor FBI agent they called away from supper was obviously the junior man getting the scut work and trying not to be disagreeable about it.

 

[tipoc]

If you read below you can figure what generally happens.

"The TSA can also levy civil fines of up to $13,333 and strip TSA PreCheck travelers of their status. (The average fine for a first offense is $2,400 for an unloaded gun and $3,000 to $4,000 for a loaded gun.)
While travelers, even with permits, cannot carry guns onto an airplane, properly permitted gun owners can travel with their firearms in checked luggage if they follow TSA and airline guidelines. Even if they fly legally with their firearms, they are still subject to local and state gun laws wherever they land."

"Despite rumors to the contrary, the TSA doesn't actually keep confiscated weapons, TSA spokesman Mark Howell told CNN in December. Loaded guns are turned over to local law enforcement (along with offenders, in some cases)."

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/tsa-seizes-record-number-of-firearms-2019/index.html

 

[peacebutready]

Thanks for the comments, all.