First time loading for 357mag

[748]

I got my dad's 3 inch rossi 6 shooter.
Never loaded 357 or 38 before, most of the brass I have was from dads range bags and are 38spl.

I have WST, 540 (HS-6), unique, AA7, h110.
Generally I only use non mag small primers. So that pretty much rules out h110.

My idea was to load hot 38spl rounds since I don't have and don't ever plan on getting a regular 38spl. of course I would mark my rounds, bullet weight and style, propellant and weight, primer make and model on the boxes (all the brass was in a boxes).
I read about some one on here, a non 38spl owner loading 38spl for use in a 357mag guns to an estimated 20,000 psi and getting 10 loads out of the 38 shells.
Actual no bs 20,000 psi loads appear to be plenty of ummph for a .357 inch bullet and 10 loads is about 3 more than I usually get before I lose the shells.
38spl is limited to 17,000psi, the factory ammo usually appears to be loaded closer to 15,000psi. Unless it's "plus pee" 38 special ammo, which about costs twice as much as normal 38spl.

I was planning to load mostly if not all 110 to 130gr bullets, with a healthy charge of unique.
The gun is light enough so 125 and heavier bullets can be kind of brutal if loaded to full power. Full power 158gr 357mag rounds make the gun jumpy, unpleasant to shoot and throws bullets kind of unpredictably. So staying away from 158s.

I expect 540, AA7 and especially h110 would just chew up a lot of powder and put on a fire ball show.
Unique and WST would be more appropriate I think and use a lot less propellant.
What do you think?
Short barrel, fast propellant, lighter bullets?

 

[Spade5]

I cannot figure out what your intended purpose is and I am not familiar with your pistol. I have a S&W 686 3 inch and load 158 grain with either Longshot, HS-6 or Unique more or less in the middle of the published loads. This works fine for me target shooting and I have no doubt it would work for self defense. I have never seen the allure of maxing out loads but to each his own. I must be doing it wrong because I cannot tell the difference between the powders I use most likely because the velocities are not that different. Good luck with your quest.

 

[Jack B.]

Find out what the gun likes, it may shoot lower power 38 special more accurately than hot loads plus it's a lot easier on you and the gun. I also have a policy of not loading beyond what is head stamped on the case. If I load 38 special +P I use cases head stamped 38 special +P . For instance I never load any .357 magnum level loads into 38 special cases. Too much of a chance of making a mistake for someone who might end up with your ammo or forgetting what you have loaded in what.

 

[Walkalong]

As usual, I would advise not loading .38 Spl brass over .38 Special pressures. .357 Mag brass is cheap, get some.

 

[Rule3]

So the question really is not loading 357 mag, it is loading 38 special to shoot in a 357 chambered revolver.
If all you want to use is 38 special brass then just load up to max published loads for 38 special.
Unique would be fine.

If you want 357 get some 357 brass

 

[IlikeSA]

I agree with the others: load 357 or less loads in 357 cases. All it takes is a one time mix up 20 years from now with your +p+ 38 special reloads in your friend or child's revolver. Around 100 new starline cases in 357 mag costs in the low to mid 20 dollar range.

Of the powders you listed, I would use Unique, but think that buying some bullseye or titegroup would be more efficient for your weapon.

 

[Charlie98]

Load .38SPC loads in your .38SPC brass, with Unique... easy pick. FWIW, a nice 158grn cast bullet over a reasonable charge of Unique (say, 4.5grn or so) is a fine shooter.

I'm not a big .38 in a .357 chamber guy, when I had my .357, I only loaded .357 brass for it, even if it was .38SPC level loads.

WST would be OK for lighter bullets, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

 

[mdi]

I have reloaded 38/357 for quite a while. If you have reloading experience you can load 357 brass mild to wild. I have loaded some 38 Special brass up to +P levels, but because I also have plenty of 357 brass, I can use just about any load I find in my reloading manuals. I have a good Lachmiller mold that gives me a 160 gr SWC when I use my 11-12 BHN alloy. I have loaded some to near max. loads of True Blue no problem, and I have also used some cast 125 gr RNFP to around 800 fps for tin can hunting, both in 357 brass...

I have quite a bit of 38 Spec. brass (I started with 38 in '69), and I have put many 38 Specials through my 357 Mag. with no problems from the dreaded carbon ring, but for 357 Mag. loads I prefer 357 Mag. brass...

 

[Bfh_auto]

I used to do things like that, then I realised there is nothing to be gained by doing it.
38 SPL is plenty for paper and is safe in any 38. No need for worrying that way.
I also don't see the draw of 38+p. It's just neutered 357.

 

[joneb]

My Ruger Sec. Six w/a 2.75" barrel shot very well with HS-6 using a 158gr plated FP while not required a GM 200 primer worked best, I was loading 1gr over max for 38 spl in a 357 mag case.
With Accurate #7 I found very good results with a 158 Rem. JHP using CCI 500 at 1gr under max for 357 mag in a 357 mag case.
For your situation Unique would be a good choice.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I used to shoot a lot of .38 Special in my .357s; but after a while you get carbon rings in the chambers if you aren’t diligent about cleaning, and they get harder to remove over time. Just make sure to clean the chambers after you shoot a lot of .38 Specials; and if you shoot mixed .38 and .357, shoot the .357 first and .38 last or you could get stuck/(hard to extract) .357 cases.

You didn’t mention whether you intended to use cast or jacketed bullets, but Unique is a good choice for either. Like others have said, I wouldn’t load .357 magnum charges into .38 special cases. They may take it a few times, but they weren’t designed to take that pressure, and as your brass is “already fired” range brass, you don’t really know if it is once fired or ten-times fired. Personally, I have switched to reloading only .357 magnum brass for my .357 revolvers and lever guns. According to Phillip Sharpe (co-developer of the .357 Magnum), you can safely load .38 Special loads in .357 brass, or if you are adventurous, you can take it all the way to max .357 magnum load data. I load a lot of plinking .357 at .38 and .38 +P levels, and they are plenty for my aging wrists, and it’s easier on the guns.

 

[Walkalong]

I shoot .38 Special type loads out of .357 brass in .357 guns all the time.

 

[Eddietruett]

My Ruger Sec. Six w/a 2.75" barrel shot very well with HS-6 using a 158gr plated FP while not required a GM 200 primer worked best, I was loading 1gr over max for 38 spl in a 357 mag case.
With Accurate #7 I found very good results with a 158 Rem. JHP using CCI 500 at 1gr under max for 357 mag in a 357 mag case.
For your situation Unique would be a good choice.

I've found that a Magnum primer always works best for HS-6. I had several buddies praising HS-6 and had read great things about it, so I decided to try it. It didn't work well at all. Poor accuracy and inconsistent velocities. Put it on the shelf. Happened to be reading an article someone wrote stating he always used magnum primers with HS-6. Decided to give it another whirl with mag primers and now its one of my favorite powders. I think it is perfect for what I call a 3/4 Power .357 Load. Hot enough to shoot steel plates at 100 yards, but not punishing like a max load of H110 or 2400.

 

[joneb]

I've found that a Magnum primer always works best for HS-6. I had several buddies praising HS-6 and had read great things about it, so I decided to try it. It didn't work well at all. Poor accuracy and inconsistent velocities. Put it on the shelf. Happened to be reading an article someone wrote stating he always used magnum primers with HS-6. Decided to give it another whirl with mag primers and now its one of my favorite powders. I think it is perfect for what I call a 3/4 Power .357 Load. Hot enough to shoot steel plates at 100 yards, but not punishing like a max load of H110 or 2400.

So why didn't it work the 1st time?

 

[Reeferman]

I've found that a Magnum primer always works best for HS-6. I had several buddies praising HS-6 and had read great things about it, so I decided to try it. It didn't work well at all. Poor accuracy and inconsistent velocities. Put it on the shelf. Happened to be reading an article someone wrote stating he always used magnum primers with HS-6. Decided to give it another whirl with mag primers and now its one of my favorite powders. I think it is perfect for what I call a 3/4 Power .357 Load. Hot enough to shoot steel plates at 100 yards, but not punishing like a max load of H110 or 2400.

HS-6 is one of my favourite powders and find magnum primers works so much better. 9 grains with a 158 Campro plated bullet is a favourite.

 

[748]

I used the old set of dies I found with my dad's stuff to load up some.
He didn't have a press, or propellants, loose projectiles or primers just some old dies I'm guessing he got at a gun show for $5. Hell the sizing die isn't even carbide.
Yeah tool steel pistol dies suck so much, after I polished the die with my dremal tool it sucked noticeably less but I still ordered a used 357 carbide sizing die off evilbay for $10 shipped.
Then when I found out the 357 mag die wouldn't crimp 38spl I ordered a used 38 seater die for $12.
So I can the dies up for their respective round and pretty much not have to mess with them.

So far I have only bought jacked bullets.
I will probably stick to jacked or plated bullets.

All the brass I have so far was in boxes with my dads stuff so I would have to say it's once fired.
On the old THR post I found where the guy was loading 38 specal way beyond +p for 357 use got 10 shots on the brass, then it cracked at the mouth.

I cannot figure out what your intended purpose is and I am not familiar with your pistol. I have a S&W 686 3 inch and load 158 grain with either Longshot, HS-6 or Unique more or less in the middle of the published loads. This works fine for me target shooting and I have no doubt it would work for self defense. I have never seen the allure of maxing out loads but to each his own. I must be doing it wrong because I cannot tell the difference between the powders I use most likely because the velocities are not that different. Good luck with your quest.

My friend who is gay for smith's said it's a really good 686 coppy.
After we shot it he said there isn't really any reason to spend up to 3x as much for a smith, unless you really want to pay for the name.

Intent was to load 357 mag lite or 3/4 357mag practice ammo. So far the best ammo I have shot was some fiochi "357mag" ammo that wasn't nearly as hot as rem, fed or win factory 357mag ammo but was definitely hotter than any over priced 38spl+p ammo.

I also like loading rounds with powder charges that fill the case at least half way, that way I cant accidentally double charge a round. 7gr of unique over fills the case when 2 charges are dropped into the same case.
For me I would rather shoot hot 38 than risk any chance of a double charged 357 mag.
I really don't want to find out what an accidental 12 to 14 gr charge of unique can do to a 357 mag.

125gr jacked bullet on top of 7gr of unique in a 38spl is definitely do not for the love of god attempt to fire in anything marked 38spl. It's about a full grain over a 38spl+p load, and about a full grain under a 357 mag recommended minimum charge.

If anyone does want to fire this load from a 38spl, let me know I will video it from a safe distance and dial 911 for you afterwards, once I stop laughing.

For the actual 357mag brass I loaded them with 9gr of unique, which is near the top of the load recommendation with 125gr jacketed bullets.
(Alliant recommends 9.1gr of unique, speer13 recommends a max of 9.5)

 

[Ironicaintit]

LOL you're funny.....

anyway, I went down the road of 9.0 of Unique behind a 125 Jacketed HP. The recoil from that is far more punishing than even a stout H110 load, IMO.
I love Unique, but that Rossi is going to wish you dead if you run a lot of those.

38 and 357 are chock full of options for loadings. Get some magnum primers and load some H110. You'll enjoy it. IMR4227 is another good powder, and is very very safe....though most people don't care for it, I still load them sometimes.

and for yourself and anybody who may receive your ammo down the road.... keep 38spcl safe loads in 38spcl cases.

 

[forrest r]

A cast or powder coated bullet will get you more velocity for the same powder charge compared to a plated or jacketed bullet. Most of the time it doesn't matter, but when you're using a short bbl'd firearm and are trying to keep the recoil down. +/- 50fps by simply choosing a good bullet design is huge.


A couple of plinking bullets that I cast and powder coat (pc). The bullet on the left is a 140gr modern version of the himmelwright bullet that excellent in the 9mm and 38spl. The bullet on the right is a crammer #33 "gallery" bullet, a 110gr plinker that was designed for light parlor loads in the 38s&w/38lc/38spl.

I finely got some time to do a little testing with that 110gr bullet in a 2" bbl'd snubnosed 38spl. 7.0gr of unique/that 110gr cramer #33 bullet/38spl case/2" bbl'd snubnosed revolver. I was getting 1100fps with that combination.

Not all bullets are created equal, did testing with that same 2" bbl'd revolver and these bullets.


As you can see there's different shaped hp's along with bullet bases, drive bands, etc. Bullets like the bottom center was designed for hunting with a 357. You can tell by the small hp. The biggest difference in those bullets pictured above is the bullet bases. Some bullets out performed others by as much a 70fps with the same load/firearm. These bullets consistently gave the highest velocities with 5 different powders tested in that snubnosed 38spl.


What they have in common is a bullet base that either large or has a gas check. This seals the cylinders/bbl.'s quickly making better use of the gun powders pressure then the bullets with the small/narrow bullet bases. The other bullets are:
Left: 158gr cramer #26 cast bullet
2nd from left: 148gr cast hbwc from a Mihec mold
3rd from left: 148gr lyman 358156 with a special order .156" hp pin
Far right: 150gr jacketed hp swaged from a 380acp case with a 9bhn lead core

Short bbl'd 357's can be a hand full. That's why I like the s&w 586 L-comp revolver.


Holds 7 rounds and it's nothing to go out and shoot 500/600 rounds of fullhouse 357 loads in a range session in it with it's favorite bullet. A 170gr fn being pushed by either power pistol, 2400, h110 or mp-300

 

[Rule3]

Here is an article by the "great" Brian Pierce on getting near 357 mag loads in 38 special brass. I don't agree with everything he says but essentially the loads are 10% less than the START loads of 357.

Read and use at your own peril!

 

[Eddietruett]

So why didn't it work the 1st time?

My first trial with HS-6 was with standard primers. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

 

[Eddietruett]

A cast or powder coated bullet will get you more velocity for the same powder charge compared to a plated or jacketed bullet. Most of the time it doesn't matter, but when you're using a short bbl'd firearm and are trying to keep the recoil down. +/- 50fps by simply choosing a good bullet design is huge.
View attachment 852641

A couple of plinking bullets that I cast and powder coat (pc). The bullet on the left is a 140gr modern version of the himmelwright bullet that excellent in the 9mm and 38spl. The bullet on the right is a crammer #33 "gallery" bullet, a 110gr plinker that was designed for light parlor loads in the 38s&w/38lc/38spl.

I finely got some time to do a little testing with that 110gr bullet in a 2" bbl'd snubnosed 38spl. 7.0gr of unique/that 110gr cramer #33 bullet/38spl case/2" bbl'd snubnosed revolver. I was getting 1100fps with that combination.

Not all bullets are created equal, did testing with that same 2" bbl'd revolver and these bullets.
View attachment 852642

As you can see there's different shaped hp's along with bullet bases, drive bands, etc. Bullets like the bottom center was designed for hunting with a 357. You can tell by the small hp. The biggest difference in those bullets pictured above is the bullet bases. Some bullets out performed others by as much a 70fps with the same load/firearm. These bullets consistently gave the highest velocities with 5 different powders tested in that snubnosed 38spl.
View attachment 852643

What they have in common is a bullet base that either large or has a gas check. This seals the cylinders/bbl.'s quickly making better use of the gun powders pressure then the bullets with the small/narrow bullet bases. The other bullets are:
Left: 158gr cramer #26 cast bullet
2nd from left: 148gr cast hbwc from a Mihec mold
3rd from left: 148gr lyman 358156 with a special order .156" hp pin
Far right: 150gr jacketed hp swaged from a 380acp case with a 9bhn lead core

Short bbl'd 357's can be a hand full. That's why I like the s&w 586 L-comp revolver.
View attachment 852644

Holds 7 rounds and it's nothing to go out and shoot 500/600 rounds of fullhouse 357 loads in a range session in it with it's favorite bullet. A 170gr fn being pushed by either power pistol, 2400, h110 or mp-300

I want to hear more about the 150gr hp swaged from a 380 case. That looks very interesting.

 

[748]

LOL you're funny.....

anyway, I went down the road of 9.0 of Unique behind a 125 Jacketed HP. The recoil from that is far more punishing than even a stout H110 load, IMO.
I love Unique, but that Rossi is going to wish you dead if you run a lot of those.

38 and 357 are chock full of options for loadings. Get some magnum primers and load some H110. You'll enjoy it. IMR4227 is another good powder, and is very very safe....though most people don't care for it, I still load them sometimes.

and for yourself and anybody who may receive your ammo down the road.... keep 38spcl safe loads in 38spcl cases.

I have some mag primers.
I can load a few.
With 44 mag I load h110 a lot. I don't even mess with unique and charges that approach max charge weight for 44 mag.
Unique in 44spl at the max charge for 240gr is fun and can shoot those all day.

 

[forrest r]

Not really hard to do. Simply anneal the cases and size them down in a draw die to ..355"/356" diameter. Drop in a cast bullet for the core and using a lee push thru sizer pin and a nose forming die. Run the drawn case with the lead core up in the press and form the bullet.

The 175gr fn's were made from 9mm cases and 115gr cast bullet and were formed using a 222remington fl sizing die.
The 150gr hp's were made from 9mm cases (trimmed) and a 95gr cast bullet and were formed using Hornady blank die. Then the 222 Remington fl sizing die to finish forming the nose.

The Hornady blank die makes xtp notches/pleats in the bullets noses. I've since switched to 380acp cases to make the 150gr hp's.


The hp's hit hard, real hard with impressive carnage. Those 175gr wfn's hit like sledge hammers in the 10" contender.

Making bullets from free range brass/free range lead is actually cave man simple to do. Another hard hitter, these do just under 1000fps in a full sized 1911 45acp.


Double crimp grooved 44cal's


Anyway, sorry for the thread drift

 

[748]

That's pretty cool