First Winchester 1897 - what do I have?

[Bibbyman]

I recently closed a deal on a a Winchester 1897 12 gauge. I don't know much ahout the model 1897. This one is a "C" series in the 200000 serial number range that from what I can find out was manufactured in1902.

I first saw the gun the day after Thanksgiving last fall. From a few feet away looks factory new. I first passed it up in the racks thinking it was a reproduction. Upon closer look, it's a Winchester and has been reblued and refinished but nicely done. It has a chip out of the stock at the receiver and some small pitting in the bore. I still passed on buying it as I had already bought a gun.

Last week I asked my son to check and see if it was still there. It was and to make along story short, he bought it for me. He'll bring it down in April when he comes to visit.

He took some cell phone pictures and I put them together in a slide show and uploaded it to YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpQvmQyn2Js&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Is there anything unique or different about this vintage model? Things handy to know?

I may shoot it some CAS matches but I don't think I'll cut the barrel.

 

[pistolero guy]

winchester mod97

wow, I am envois Bibby! I have always wanted one but just haven't found it yet! in my book one of the best shotguns for combat and home defense for two reasons, exposed hammer, with the inertia firing pin you can keep a round in battery and hammer down with no worries about accidental discharge. this would make it great for me as a shotgun to keep next to my bed.
secondly, this weapon has no trigger disconnect, meaning it will fire as fast as you can cycle the pump. releasing the hammer as soon as the fresh round comes in to full battery. (with the trigger held back of course)

During WW1 the Germans were so dismayed with the power of this shotgun in its trench configuration that they announced they were to begin shooting prisoners of war unless the American, British, Ausies and French stopped using them!
The Allied response was to tell the Germans that if they begin shooting POWs that they would reciprocate in kind.
There is also an Ithaca shotgun (model 37) that copied much of the internals but not the external hammer.

 

[Bibbyman]

Is there any chance this 97 is chambered for the 2-1/2" shells?

 

[pistolero guy]

model 97

Boy, you got me there, that I do not know for sure. what is stamped on the barrel? even at that time they were stamping the barrels. Early in the war, they were using paper shells. they soon found that they did not hold up well in the damp to wet trenches so they developed a brass cased shell with a water resistant cap 2 3/4". I have several examples of these from that period. best way to tell is take a 2 3/4" shell and insert it by hand. if it goes in easy with no resistance you are good to go.

 

[hartcreek]

They certainly are a good shotgun....I passed on one with a winchoke for $350 a few months ago.

 

[Airman Basic]

wow, I am envois Bibby! I have always wanted one but just haven't found it yet! in my book one of the best shotguns for combat and home defense for two reasons, exposed hammer, with the inertia firing pin you can keep a round in battery and hammer down with no worries about accidental discharge. this would make it great for me as a shotgun to keep next to my bed.
secondly, this weapon has no trigger disconnect, meaning it will fire as fast as you can cycle the pump. releasing the hammer as soon as the fresh round comes in to full battery. (with the trigger held back of course)

During WW1 the Germans were so dismayed with the power of this shotgun in its trench configuration that they announced they were to begin shooting prisoners of war unless the American, British, Ausies and French stopped using them!
The Allied response was to tell the Germans that if they begin shooting POWs that they would reciprocate in kind.
There is also an Ithaca shotgun (model 37) that copied much of the internals but not the external hammer.

Got a 97 belonged to my grandfather. Love the gun, but if you drop it on the buttstock with a chambered round, it will go off, regardless of hammer position.

 

[rcmodel]

Well, it's broke then.

No way a properly functioning M-97 will fire when dropped on the butt unless it is cocked and the trigger jars off.

Better get it fixed before you try to use it again.

Rc

 

[Bibbyman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyIVvXNgodM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Here is a short video of my new old 97. I patched the chip out of the buttstock near the trigger on the right side. The new wood has more of a rose color and don't match well. I took off the old finish but didn't try to clean up all scratches and stains as the stock and been sanded enough over the years.

The bore was dark with some pitting. I have brightened it up some but I'll probably won't get the pits out. The barrel has no forcing cone to speak of.

 

[Frostbite]

Nice work done on a nice gun! The external hammer rocks. Does any modern (present day offering) shotgun design feature something like this? I understand it is appreciated for HD duty. Not that I would need it, just curious.

 

[rcmodel]

best way to tell is take a 2 3/4" shell and insert it by hand. if it goes in easy with no resistance you are good to go.

That will actually tell you absolutely nothing!

Chamber length is measured by the length of a fired shell after the crimp unfolds.

A 2 3/4" loaded shell will drop right in a 2 9/16" chamber.
But there is no room in the forcing cone for the crimp to open up.

It is my understanding that 12 ga 1897's were all chambered for 2 3/4" shells.

The 16 ga ones are most likely chambered for 2 9/16" shells.

rc

 

[oneounceload]

best way to tell is take a 2 3/4" shell and insert it by hand. if it goes in easy with no resistance you are good to go.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and potentially dangerous, especially with guns over 100 years old!

Get it checked to make sure.

 

[Bibbyman]

The 97 takedown has a chamber ring that complicates measuring the chamber depth. Can it be done by measuring from chamber ring to bolt face and measuring depth of chamber and adding the two?

I've seen 97s marked 2-3/4 on barrel. My 97 does not have the length marked.

 

[rcmodel]

The chamber headspace ring in a Model 97, or Model 12 is part of the total chamber.
They are reamed as part of the total chamber when they were made, or replaced.

They have nothing to do with anything when measuring chamber length.
As they are part of the chamber.

rc

 

[Bibbyman]

Nice work done on a nice gun! The external hammer rocks. Does any modern (present day offering) shotgun design feature something like this? I understand it is appreciated for HD duty. Not that I would need it, just curious.

There is a copy of the Winchester 97 solid frame made in China by the name of Norinco. They are popular with the cowboy action shooters.

 

[Bibbyman]

The chamber headspace ring in a Model 97, or Model 12 is part of the total chamber.
They are reamed as part of the total chamber when they were made, or replaced.

They have nothing to do with anything when measuring chamber length.
As they are part of the chamber.

rc

Let me rephrase my question. What is the proper procedure for measuring the chamber depth of a 97 takedown?

 

[highpower]

You will love your '97. They were a working man's gun, designed to be used to put food on the table for years and years. I have had a couple of them over the years and the one I currently own does it's duty as my HD shotgun.

 

[rcmodel]

Let me rephrase my question. What is the proper procedure for measuring the chamber depth of a 97 takedown?

Same as any other chamber.

With the barrel off the receiver.
The headspace ring in the chamber is just part of the total chamber depth.

The bolt face butts against it when in battery.

rc