If the people on flight 93 who took out the hijackers had been in the military, they would have been awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. Is there not some equivalent civilian honor we could bestow? These people deserve it. It has always bothered me that they have been ignored by the Gov. Almost as if they broke the "sheeple" rule.
Flight 93
- Thread starter DevLcL
- Start date
- Status
answerguy
Member
DevLcL said:
I think the 'knife men' have an inflated opinion of themselves. In the confines of an aircraft, the guy with a knife is going to be like the 'one pin' on a bowling lane. With multiple balls coming at him.
NineseveN said:
Okay, so you have more experience and you'd kick my behind, point taken, but your not a terrorist, why would I ever need to try and overpower you while you had a knife? These guys on the plane were no bodybuilders. I'd be willing to bet those terrorists on that day were about to soil themselves from fear, sure they were serious about their intentions, but they wern't clear headed. Of course, if enough emotion runs over me making me rush a man with a knife, I probably wouldn't be very clear headed either.
This is my final point...
If at any time I should become aware that a person or persons intend to do me in, I'm gonna give it all I got to survive. Even if it means rushing towards a knife. Let's say I was one of those passengers on that flight that day and I had no idea what was going on, I probably would have done exactly what they did. Now, however, I'll react a little quicker. Way too much time passed from the moment they started putting on their bandanas to the time they rushed the cockpit, something could have been done IMO. Bottom line though is that the passengers on that flight were/are heros.
+1 on the civilian medal idea..
-Dev
P.s. NineseveN, I have been in a knife fight and the scar on my leg would in fact prove you correct. Also, you'd be surprised about the things I've seen, I grew up in San Fran. For those of you that associate SF with homosexuality: (we'll your partly correct) theres lots of bad guys here too... believe me.
Ryder
Member
I have a related link:
http://www.barry.fireflyinternet.co.uk/fun/files/pilot.htm
(you'll need speakers for this)
http://www.barry.fireflyinternet.co.uk/fun/files/pilot.htm
(you'll need speakers for this)
On a similar subject I suggest going out and renting a movie called 'Homeland Security'. It's not a blockbuster but it does have some decent caracters and is absolutely FULL of juicy terrorism scenes. I'm not sure how factual the whole thing is but a few things are true like for example the terrorist attacks. Anyway I thought it was pretty good and I'm very curious to find out how much of the movie was true. I forget his name but the leader of the Northern Alliance was assisnated in Afganistan only days before 9/11 by a terrorist group posing as Al Jazeer news. I know this is true and the corresponding scene in the movie is worth watching. Just imagine, Allah Akbahd..BOOM.
-Dev
Anyway I thought it was pretty good and I'm very curious to find out how much of the movie was true. I forget his name but the leader of the Northern Alliance was assisnated in Afganistan only days before 9/11 by a terrorist group posing as Al Jazeer news. I know this is true and the corresponding scene in the movie is worth watching. Just imagine, Allah Akbahd..BOOM.-Dev
History Nut
Member
Thoughts on "Flight 93"
The movie has been on more than once. I first saw it a month or two ago. As far as production values, maybe they could have spent a little more but it is pretty powerful as it is. I kind of hope they don't make a big-budget production out of the story. Having "name" actors playing those real people would take away from the story. Those people were ordinary Americans, the great 'unknowns' that make our country great. By using 'unknown' or lesser-known actors to portray them, it makes the emotional connection all the more powerfull.
Regarding the timing of the passengers' actions, I grew up in the commercial airlines industry and can back up what others have already posted. At one time, when the airlines had "air mail" contracts, it was a government REQUIREMENT for a sidearm to be carried in the cockpit. In the early '60s when hijackings became more common, some airlines began arming pilots again. For a long time, the flight crews didn't go through 'security' and no one knew what they had in their bags. Then even the aircrew had to go through 'security'. The policy, as others have stated, was to comply with the hijackers demands. This was the policy of both the FAA and the Airline Industry. The Federal Air Marshall program had languished also. That was the atmosphere that the 9-11 hijackers depended upon. It worked in three cases for them but not on Flt 93 because the passengers had learned about their impending fate through phone calls. I am humbled and proud of the actions taken by those people. As the movie said, it was the one bright spot in an otherwise dark day. One of the things pointed out in the movie was that as soon as the passengers realized what really was going on, they got together, discussed it and then VOTED on their course of action. This is typically American. We are individuals that like to go our own way. When we need a common action, we meet and vote a course and then tend to follow the vote even it we disagreed with the idea. It is both our weakness and our strength.
A comment about "box knives" and blades: I am not a knife fighter or for that matter, much of a fighter at all. In my 25+ years of EMS, I saw a LOT of cuttings/slashings/stabbings. I don't want to be anywhere near someone with a knife. That is why I like guns. A relative that had "unarmed combat" training in the military told me that one of his instructors remarked that if you are within an arms reach of someone with a knife, you are in trouble; if you are within an arms reach of someone with a knife who knows what he is doing, you are REALLY in trouble.
One last thing: One of the shows done that analysed the events of 9-11 not long after it reviewed the attempts at interception that occured that day. Regarding Flt 93 it said that the only Air Force aircraft that were vectored to intercept Flt 93 were a pair of ANG F-16s on a training flight. Those Falcons were UNARMED as was customary. The show interviewed the flight leader and the reporter asked him how he could have brought down the airliner without missles or gun ammo. The Air Force officer simply said: 'sometimes you are asked to earn your pay'. I don't think the reporter got it but I did. As it turned out, they were just too far away to make an interception before Flt 93 was crashed. Now, I wish I could remember the name of the 'special' but can't.
Sorry for the long post but I just wanted to cover several things that I got from the other posts. I hope the moderators don't mind but I would like to add one last comment. I hope the current crop of terrorists watch "Flight 93". They should especially pay attention to the part about the passengers holding a discussion and then voting on their actions before carrying them out. Mr. Average Terrorist probably thinks Americans are weak, lazy, fat, decadent, etc.. In some ways they are right. But that is also deceptive. A lot of Americans have let their 9-11 memories fade and gone back to their 'normal' lives. That may appear to be weakness but is just how we are. We tend to react to difficulty, "fix it" and move on with our lives. Mr. Average Terrorist should realize that his best tactic would be to 'lay low' and let time pass. However, if he hits us again like 9-11 or worse, he should realize that Americans will have a discussion, take a vote and then act on that vote much like the people on Flt 93. But Mr. A.T. should realize that would be the biggest mistake he could ever make. He might even have a microsecond to realize that before he is vaporized or reduced to room temperature depending on the weapon used. Oh, I won't be the one doing it as I am too old and broken but we have a lot of fine young men and women who are great 'trigger pullers' and 'button pushers' to aid Mr. A.T. in meeting God.
The movie has been on more than once. I first saw it a month or two ago. As far as production values, maybe they could have spent a little more but it is pretty powerful as it is. I kind of hope they don't make a big-budget production out of the story. Having "name" actors playing those real people would take away from the story. Those people were ordinary Americans, the great 'unknowns' that make our country great. By using 'unknown' or lesser-known actors to portray them, it makes the emotional connection all the more powerfull.
Regarding the timing of the passengers' actions, I grew up in the commercial airlines industry and can back up what others have already posted. At one time, when the airlines had "air mail" contracts, it was a government REQUIREMENT for a sidearm to be carried in the cockpit. In the early '60s when hijackings became more common, some airlines began arming pilots again. For a long time, the flight crews didn't go through 'security' and no one knew what they had in their bags. Then even the aircrew had to go through 'security'. The policy, as others have stated, was to comply with the hijackers demands. This was the policy of both the FAA and the Airline Industry. The Federal Air Marshall program had languished also. That was the atmosphere that the 9-11 hijackers depended upon. It worked in three cases for them but not on Flt 93 because the passengers had learned about their impending fate through phone calls. I am humbled and proud of the actions taken by those people. As the movie said, it was the one bright spot in an otherwise dark day. One of the things pointed out in the movie was that as soon as the passengers realized what really was going on, they got together, discussed it and then VOTED on their course of action. This is typically American. We are individuals that like to go our own way. When we need a common action, we meet and vote a course and then tend to follow the vote even it we disagreed with the idea. It is both our weakness and our strength.
A comment about "box knives" and blades: I am not a knife fighter or for that matter, much of a fighter at all. In my 25+ years of EMS, I saw a LOT of cuttings/slashings/stabbings. I don't want to be anywhere near someone with a knife. That is why I like guns. A relative that had "unarmed combat" training in the military told me that one of his instructors remarked that if you are within an arms reach of someone with a knife, you are in trouble; if you are within an arms reach of someone with a knife who knows what he is doing, you are REALLY in trouble.
One last thing: One of the shows done that analysed the events of 9-11 not long after it reviewed the attempts at interception that occured that day. Regarding Flt 93 it said that the only Air Force aircraft that were vectored to intercept Flt 93 were a pair of ANG F-16s on a training flight. Those Falcons were UNARMED as was customary. The show interviewed the flight leader and the reporter asked him how he could have brought down the airliner without missles or gun ammo. The Air Force officer simply said: 'sometimes you are asked to earn your pay'. I don't think the reporter got it but I did. As it turned out, they were just too far away to make an interception before Flt 93 was crashed. Now, I wish I could remember the name of the 'special' but can't.
Sorry for the long post but I just wanted to cover several things that I got from the other posts. I hope the moderators don't mind but I would like to add one last comment. I hope the current crop of terrorists watch "Flight 93". They should especially pay attention to the part about the passengers holding a discussion and then voting on their actions before carrying them out. Mr. Average Terrorist probably thinks Americans are weak, lazy, fat, decadent, etc.. In some ways they are right. But that is also deceptive. A lot of Americans have let their 9-11 memories fade and gone back to their 'normal' lives. That may appear to be weakness but is just how we are. We tend to react to difficulty, "fix it" and move on with our lives. Mr. Average Terrorist should realize that his best tactic would be to 'lay low' and let time pass. However, if he hits us again like 9-11 or worse, he should realize that Americans will have a discussion, take a vote and then act on that vote much like the people on Flt 93. But Mr. A.T. should realize that would be the biggest mistake he could ever make. He might even have a microsecond to realize that before he is vaporized or reduced to room temperature depending on the weapon used. Oh, I won't be the one doing it as I am too old and broken but we have a lot of fine young men and women who are great 'trigger pullers' and 'button pushers' to aid Mr. A.T. in meeting God.
KriegHund
Member
I think i'de have to rip a hijackers throat out if they tried to hijack a plane.
Im not kidding. I would really rip their throat out. And pop their eyeballs. And crush their genatalia.
Assuming no one beats me to it.
Im not kidding. I would really rip their throat out. And pop their eyeballs. And crush their genatalia.
Assuming no one beats me to it.
NineseveN
member
DevLcL said:
That wasn't the point. If I had a marker and you were going full force, you'd beat me silly.
I was not trying to tell you not to rush them, I'm only trying to give you an idea of what to expect. In truth, if I could not find something that I could use as a weapon, I would rush them as well. This wasn't a genitalia contest, just an FYI. If they have a knife and you don't, you must end the fight quickly and decisively, because chances are you may not take too long to bleed out. There's no room for second place in that encounter.
Roger that.
No doubt man, like I said, I wasn't trying to compare genitalia, just trying to make sure you have realistic expectations going in. If I rush a guy with a knife and I am bare handed, chances are, I'm not walking home unassisted, if at all, but I will do my best to make make darn sure he's taking a dirt nap before I bleed out.
Be safe.
I'm glad were finally on the same page here.
That wasn't my intention either. The important thing to remember here is that the terrorist are the enemy. Not each other. I suppose they want us to argue like this 
They hate us (Americans) because of the equal rights of each of its (America's) citizens. They believe absolute and brutal control is the only form of proper leadership. Thats what pisses me off more then anything else. They'd take millions of innocent lives if given the chance, and for what? Because our women don't wear masks? Becuase we drink? Add to all of this the fact that they fight like complete cowards, its all really just mind boggling!
The only way I can describe Osama is like a mentally handicapped person getting ahold of a knife in a crowded room and blinding slashing at people becuase in his head they are somehow wrong or attacking him. But even this description is more then that guy deserves. I know this goes WAAAAAAY off topic, I just feeling like getting all this out.
I feel like this guy....
-Dev
NineseveN said:
That wasn't my intention either. The important thing to remember here is that the terrorist are the enemy.
Not each other. I suppose they want us to argue like this They hate us (Americans) because of the equal rights of each of its (America's) citizens. They believe absolute and brutal control is the only form of proper leadership. Thats what pisses me off more then anything else. They'd take millions of innocent lives if given the chance, and for what? Because our women don't wear masks? Becuase we drink? Add to all of this the fact that they fight like complete cowards, its all really just mind boggling!
The only way I can describe Osama is like a mentally handicapped person getting ahold of a knife in a crowded room and blinding slashing at people becuase in his head they are somehow wrong or attacking him. But even this description is more then that guy deserves. I know this goes WAAAAAAY off topic, I just feeling like getting all this out.
I feel like this guy....
KriegHund said:
-Dev
NineseveN
member
DevLcL said:I'm glad were finally on the same page here.
That wasn't my intention either. The important thing to remember here is that the terrorist are the enemy.
-Dev
The thing is, when we argue, no one gets blown up or has their heads sawed off.
answerguy
Member
NineseveN said:
As long as we're arguing about the best way to kill them.
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