Flipping CMP 1911s

Status
Not open for further replies.

wojownik

Member
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
2,086
So, a local gunboard has a posting from a chap who is selling his CMP 1911 for $1850. It was shipped to him in the first week of April, so he's had it in his hands for just under two weeks at most, and paid $1050 to the CMP.

This got me thinking of a number of issues:

- what do you guys think of this kind of flipping? CMP certainly does not encourage it (hence their warning that once can be banned from further CMP purchases for "an indefinite period."

- it is a pistol I absolutely would want - but I just can't stomach the idea of handing $800 in profit to a flipper. Heck, he even posted a picture of his CMP receipt, which shows what he paid, and the ship date.

What is a realistic market price for a CMP pistol in what seems to be very good condition (he's posted more pictures of the box and his CMP papers than of the pistol itself)?

Or more specifically, might a reasonable counter offer be to this seller, assuming he's willing to listen to a counter offer?

I didn't make the cut for the CMP sales, and no idea if or when they'll have another round of pistols. I've heard CMP is concerned that info about this kind of reselling/flipping may cause second thoughts on allocating them additional 1911s.
 
Really the only opinion that matters on what constitutes a fair price are those of buyer and seller. Counter with $1100 or $1200 or $1500 -- whatever you think is fair. No harm in doing a little back and forth for the sake of price discovery. For better or worse, that's capitalism. I take advantage of it when I can (for example, selling a 1911 at a 50% profit a few years after buying it, or purchasing some extra ammunition or sub-$500 ARs now in anticipation of higher prices down the road). But getting emotional about pricing is like getting upset at the sky for being blue; there's just no point.
 
I think it’s in poor taste, but what I think doesnt matter. Gun is his, and he can do what he wants with it. Apparently he accepts whatever consequences CMP has put out there.

A stupid-high price wont get a counter-offer from me. If you want to make a counter, maybe throw the cmp price plus $100 for his trouble.

He wouldn’t get my money anyway.
 
Probably at least $400 overpriced, I'd guess. The more rare and valuable guns are being kept for their online auction process. If I was you I'd either research what the online auction process is going to entail or wait until they release the next batch. You aren't going to reach a reasonable price with someone who thinks $1,800 is a realistic starting point.

If I was a betting man I would be willing to bet they will be releasing more batches of 1911's. Nothing is going to impact the program in a significant manner with the current administration in place. 3 years from now if there is a new Secretary of the Army appointed by a new President I would be surprised if they continue to release the guns.
 
People have been flipping CMP guns for a long time. They had a limit of one Garand a month for a while; not sure if it's still in effect.

I personally don't have a problem with it. Free country and capitalist principles are in force. He goes through the trouble to get approved and does the leg work then he can expect a fee for his trouble. Whether that fee is acceptable to the buyer is up to the buyer. The free market will determine that.

Now if someone is flipping/reselling so many guns that he is a de facto FFL, well, that's why we have federal laws in place to cover that stuff.
 
I didn't make the cut either but I'm short on the list.

There's always going to be somebody trying to flip something and make a quick buck. Because there were so few pistols and so many people wanting those there's probably a market for them right now. If the second batch comes in the value will go down in the resale market. It's probably already affecting the 1911 USGI market.

To be honest I think the CMP's price is about right for the condition in the present market. I can actually see the CMP having to reduce the price if 30 or 40K pistols eventually get sold.

I would wait for the second sale if I were you. I'm not sure if I would buy one in the second sale and probably a lot of people like me who are on the fence will drop out. Being frankenguns I can't see any value past 1K. There are only so many USGI collectors out there.
 
Regardless of condition, for my area, if it were here, he's essentially selling a Mixmaster WWII at a price very near or in excess of what a parts-correct specimen would go for. As anecdotal evidence, I bought a December 43 production, all parts correct, Rem-Rand with the holster and web belt, and 4 period correct, marked mags for $1600 a year and a half ago. That said, there's the whole "willing buyer, willing seller" thing...
 
Can't say anyone shouldn't have seen this coming ...

I carried a 1911 from 1979 until 1993 while on active duty; there's no special mystique for me about the military 1911s and I'm quite satisfied with my old commercial Series 70 to fill that "military handgun" niche in my collection. {of course, if I could get one with provenance -- one that I or my father was issued while on active duty -- that'd be another story}

While CMP's prices may reflect current collector demand, I think buying one of these guns solely to flip it and make a (marginal) profit while screwing some guy who missed out on the lottery and wanted to honor his own, his dad's or grandpa's or anyone else's service by owning one ... just seems like the actions of a douchebag, capitalism and free market notwithstanding. Anyway, there's gotta be easier ways of making $800 ...
 
OP, are you trying to say that you’ve never sold something for more than you’ve paid for it?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is anything inherently special about the CMP 1911s. They are, in effect, just like any other re-arseneled military 1911. Although as I write this, just checked prices on GB, they're getting a bit nuts in my personal opinion. $1500 - $2500? For a bone stock 1911? Ok, I guess...not my cuppa tea. A few years back I cleaned one up that had been sitting in a friend's dad's sock drawer for 30 years. They were in the $800 - $1500 range then.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/rescued-remington-rand-1911.778708/
 
Old P. T. Barnum was right. And I am not just talking about people who would buy from a flipper. Anyone who paid CMP their price is in the same category. What a bunch of hooey.
 
OP, are you trying to say that you’ve never sold something for more than you’ve paid for it?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I would admit, no, I have never marked up something by over 76% after having owned it for just 5 or 10 days. I'm all for the the free market, and I'm just trying to figure out whether $1850 for a CMP service grade 1911 is out of line. From everything I'm hearing here and elsewhere, yes, it is out of line ... but some folks might be willing to pony up, perhaps with the mistaken impression that this are more than what they are (i.e. armory mixmaster shooters, not all-matching WW2 originals with provenance).

That's my impression at this point.

The seller also seems reluctant to give up more info on the pistol. He posted pictures of the left side of the pistol. I asked for a right side picture, and that seems to be a hassle for him, but he did mention the slide markings were barely legible. So likely reparkerized/refinished. I asked a few polite questions about markings on the frame, etc., to see how much of a mixmaster this might be. He's not answering that either. I didn't even raise price in our short email exchanges. So, have to take a big pass on this pistol - $1,800 is crazy for a refinished mixmaster (even if the refinishing and mixmastering happened by Uncle Sam).

Old Dog - you've closely summarized my feelings on this. At 1,800+, I'd be looking for more history, and less of a mixmaster. For CMP's original $1,050, I'd feel fine having this as a shooter. For $1,800, this is getting a little crazy.

Open to alternative opinions, though...

Can't say anyone shouldn't have seen this coming ...

I carried a 1911 from 1979 until 1993 while on active duty; there's no special mystique for me about the military 1911s and I'm quite satisfied with my old commercial Series 70 to fill that "military handgun" niche in my collection. {of course, if I could get one with provenance -- one that I or my father was issued while on active duty -- that'd be another story}

While CMP's prices may reflect current collector demand, I think buying one of these guns solely to flip it and make a (marginal) profit while screwing some guy who missed out on the lottery and wanted to honor his own, his dad's or grandpa's or anyone else's service by owning one ... just seems like the actions of a douchebag, capitalism and free market notwithstanding. Anyway, there's gotta be easier ways of making $800 ...
 
Its rare that I see a WWII 1911 for less than $1500, seems like $2000+ is the usual.
 
rpenmanparker: said:
Old P. T. Barnum was right. And I am not just talking about people who would buy from a flipper. Anyone who paid CMP their price is in the same category. What a bunch of hooey.

I have to scratch my head & chuckle over these CMP 1911’s. I used to evaluate & inventory these guns back in the ‘70’s when I was in the military and many of these were clapped out back then. I’m sure that some of these are possibly in better shape than some of the guns I saw back then, but I still can’t get it out of my head that people are paying these prices for guns that were decommissioned over thirty years ago, and which have been sitting in what kind of temperature UNcontrolled storage for the same length of time. Well to each his or her own anyway.
 
When those OH National Guard folding stock 870s got surplused out for like 400 or something there was someone selling them on GB for $1500 and they sold quickly.

It’s not often when an opportunity comes up to buy an item at an apparently low cost controlled price but that items actual worth is much higher.
 
Old P. T. Barnum was right. And I am not just talking about people who would buy from a flipper. Anyone who paid CMP their price is in the same category. What a bunch of hooey.
I have wanted a USGI 1911 for a long time. When the CMP started selling them for 1/2 the price i can get them for, I put my name in the hat. Call me what you want, but getting a $1500+ gun that I have wanted for years for a hair over $1000 is something I would do all day long.

Some of us respect the men and gear that helped out in WWII...the men are mostly gone, the gear will soon be all we have to remember them by. Some people don't. I respect your opinion, but I don't share it.
 
Why does CMP care if you sell a gun you bought from them?

I do not think CMP cares any more. Things were more restrictive years ago but I think CMP now wants to sell the goods they have on hand and what happens later it is out of their control. The CMP wants to fund their programs, which is good.

I've lost track, but they used to have purchasing limits in place that would limit an individual's ability to make lots of money on CMP sold firearms. In the mid 2000's, they had folks buying pickup trucks loads of surplus ammunition that got re-sold. The CMP put procedures in place to limit those kind of purchases so that otheres could benefit from the price of surplus ammunition.

In any case. I enjoy the Garands and the M1 carbines that I have obtained from CMP. I hope folks buying M1911's get an example that pleases them.

As far as flipping an M1911 from CMP, I feel it is in poor taste but it is up to the individual. I elected to not engage in the lottery for one of the CMP 1911's. I'll probably regret it down the road, but so be it.
 
Last edited:
CMP has stated that they set the price on these 1911 with an eye to making them "too high" to flip. That they wanted people to actually want the product and keep it for a lifetime.

Mind, the current stock has not been WWII dated (much) The photos of the recent ones delivered are of "best condition" examples. (Which makes sense, as those would need the least work to get ready for sale; CMP is not an importer that just scrapes the cosmoline off the top and ships to an ffl, they tear down the arms and gauge them, piece by piece).

CMP is also pretty actively involved in watching the market, too. Flogging off the copy you just got from CMP on GB is likely to get your name blackballed on the future purchase list.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top