Flipping CMP 1911s

[ArchAngelCD]

I didn't even try to get one, I'm just sayin.

The only reason I see for trying to score one of these 1911s from CMP is if I were a WWII reinactor. Then it would be cool to have a pistol that was there. Too bad my dad didn't bring one home with him.

 

[wojownik]

I have to disagree with some of what you wrote there... The premise that the CMP pistol you get "was there" is IMHO speculative to start with ... I've seen a number with USGI replacement and even commercial replacement slides. The parts have been mixmastered unknown numbers of times over the past 70+ years. Not to be too cynical, but you might end up with a pistol where the frame might have "been there," the rest of the parts = slide, barrel, trigger, etc... may well have come out of storage. That's why I'm questioning this premium value that flippers and buyers are putting on many of these CMP 1911s.

If I was a WW2 reenactor, I'd go with a Cimarron, Armscorp or RIA and just refinish it. I just do not beleive in taking out historical items "into the field" for reenacting. (I know a guy who used his 1840s musket for CW reenactments - and of course busted the stock. My comment on that is unprintable, at least for THR). A complete mixmaster CMP 1911? Sure, probably OK for a reenactor. Not a whole lot of history there, particularly if the slide is a replacement. A CMP 1911 that is mostly probably matching? Gotta think about that one ...

My father, uncles and grandfather managed to bring home a number of items from their service in WW1, WW2, Korea, etc... These would never, ever go into a re-enactment. These are priceless (to me), because of the family history - they have provenance, and really truly have "been there" and "done that". These will be cared for and passed down to the next generation, with the stories of what my kids ancestors did.

IMHO, these CMP 1911s have an uncertain history, aside from them having been rearsenaled, refinished (perhaps multiple times), and stored by Uncle Sam untill turned over to CMP. That does adds a certain provenance, but its not like being able to connect the pistol with a specific conflict or even branch of service. That's the difference between a $1050 CMP pistol and an $2000+ WW2 1911.

Maybe I'm just talking myself out of looking at this particular CMP 1911, but the seller is acting like he's got Audie Murphy's personal sidearm, and I'm looking at it like a gun assembled by Uncle Sugar from parts. Which means we're not going to find a middle way on pricing (he already curtly rebuffed my $1400 offer, citing his idea that these are selling for $2500 on GB all day long).

But, this thread is still a good discussion about the perceived market value of these CMP 1911s. I think CMP was pretty spot on the pricing of these 1911s from a rational market perspective. They are mixmasters, and were priced accordingly. The gun market these days, however, seems to be far from rational, and sellers/buyers beleive what they want to beleive, regardless of facts and logic.

Rant mode off.

I didn't even try to get one, I'm just sayin.

The only reason I see for trying to score one of these 1911s from CMP is if I were a WWII reinactor. Then it would be cool to have a pistol that was there. Too bad my dad didn't bring one home with him.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Not for nothing but people keep mentioning the parts don't match numbers, that is the normal, not the exception. Just take a look at the M1 Garands that come out of CMP or elsewhere in the government, rarely do the parts match, it's just a function of reconditioning the guns. The numbers on the 1911s probably haven't matched since the 1940s.

 

[cfullgraf]

One of the beauties of the Garand is if the parts were made to spec and not worn out, they could be installed in just about any Garand. Fitting the barrel and checking the bolt's head spacing is about the only exception. Lots of time, fitting the bolt was grabbing a different one from the bin and seeing if it nestled up to the headspace gauges.

So, Garand parts are not matched to the receiver's serial number like many contemporary military firearms. Armorers have gauges for various parts to insure the parts are in spec.

But, most of the Garand's parts are stamped with a drawing number, revision number, and maybe a date of manufacture. That is what most folks look for to determine that a Garand has "matching" numbers. Most Garands and M1 carbines have been rebuilt at least once and hence rarely have been rebuilt with parts matching the period the receiver was first made.

To add to the confusion, old/new parts or parts from different manufacturers have found their way into various rifles during their original assembly. It makes determining "original" very difficult at times.

I am sure most of the CMP M1911's have been rebuilt at least once through out their life. While more parts require fitting on an M1911 than a Garand, frequently the handgun can be thrown together with serviceable parts and function acceptably well for military service. In other words, it will not win a bullseye contest but it will function reliably for the average soldier.

I have not heard that any of the M1911's have parts stamped with the receiver's serial number but I could be in error. If the parts are not matched to the receiver, there is no way of knowing if the parts were replaced unless the physical shape of the part was changed from the original issue part.

I elected to not attempt to get a CMP M1911. I would not mind having one but my collection desires have moved on to different things. I hope folks that have submitted the paperwork for an M1911 get a good one.

 

[Slamfire]

Hey, if someone is willing to pay the price, then by Golly, let them. I doubt the seller has any emotional attachment to an old hunk of steel, but the buyer certainly will. If you want to pay thousands for an old gun, just because it is old, there are lots of rocks in my back yard that are millions of years older. Want to buy some of them?

 

[Homerboy]

I got one of the CMP 1911’s. It’s a service grade and it was rebuilt twice. When I was picking it up, another guy there offered me $1500 for it. I declined.

The last 1911 purchased by the government was in 1945( aside from some of the recent ones used by special units that bear almost no resemblance to a GI Model). They’ve all been rebuilt. How could they not be? Mine was over 30 years old when it had its first rebuild! But comparing this “old gun”, that hung from the hips of American GI’s, to a newer Philipino or Brazilian copy is a joke. People bought these 1911’s because they are the genuine thing. No, they’re not 100% period correct WWII weapons, which is why they’re not $3000. But mine is super clean and tight, and shoots where I aim it. And a few hundred bucks more for it over some copy is worth it to me. The value will never go down, unlike virtually every other gun the second you fill out the 4473.

 

[Homerboy]

CMP has stated that they set the price on these 1911 with an eye to making them "too high" to flip. That they wanted people to actually want the product and keep it for a lifetime.

Mind, the current stock has not been WWII dated (much) The photos of the recent ones delivered are of "best condition" examples. (Which makes sense, as those would need the least work to get ready for sale; CMP is not an importer that just scrapes the cosmoline off the top and ships to an ffl, they tear down the arms and gauge them, piece by piece).

CMP is also pretty actively involved in watching the market, too. Flogging off the copy you just got from CMP on GB is likely to get your name blackballed on the future purchase list.

You think they have employees monitoring gun broker? Please! They sold a gun and got their money. They’re surely not gonna refuse to take any more of your money if you flip your privately owned property. I never intend to sell mine. It’s my favorite gun now. But if I ever needed to in dire circumstances I am free to get as much as I could for it. If the CMP doesn’t like that they can kiss my butt.

 

[dh1633pm]

This is simple supply and demand. We can debate all day long on what the price should be, but in reality it is whatever someone is willing to pay.

Think of a natural disaster where someone buys generators from one area of the country and sells them for a high price in the disaster zone. Gouging to say the least. It does serve a purpose. Others will look on and say, hey this person is making a killing, so they copy. If enough do the same, the market becomes flooded and prices start to return to a more normal lever. Supply and demand will effect even a 1911.

 

[Jessesky]

Once the pistol is his, I don’t think CMP should have any say after that. (Unless he is bypassing the 2 per person limit I think they have).

For the price, he can ask whatever he wants. Doesn’t mean he will get it. Gunbroker is full of listings like these. Look at no reserve auctions to get a sense at the sold price

 

[AlexanderA]

The only reason I see for trying to score one of these 1911s from CMP is if I were a WWII reinactor.

The trend among reenactors is to use reproductions wherever possible. This would be true for 1911's, although not yet for Garands.

If I was a WW2 reenactor, I'd go with a Cimarron, Armscorp or RIA and just refinish it. I just do not beleive in taking out historical items "into the field" for reenacting.

That's right. There are WW2 GI clones from RIA and Kahr/Thompson that are reasonably priced. (The Kahr can be used for reenacting right out of the box, while the RIA needs some changes such as a GI replacement slide.)