FMJ in .380 for carry, a question...

[Wanderling]

So, personally, after watching ShootingTheBull's videos, I settled on Federal Hydra-Shoks - they performed very well in his tests, and are easily available in my location.

But I keep reading posts by people who carry FMJs instead of JHPs in their "mouse guns". It seems there just as many of them as the people using hollow point self defense ammo.

I understand the reasoning behind it. But it seems that you'd still run the risk of overpenetration with a "full load" FMJ, which is a very serious consideration. And nearly every FMJ advocate seems to have some fancy special order carry round.

So, I was thinking - wouldn't it make sense then, for someone dead set on carrying FMJs for maximum penetration, to use the various "target" rounds - which are sure to not be loaded too hot, while most likely still providing more than sufficient penetration vs an average JHP ?

To be honest, I don't think I will change my carry rounds just yet. The question is purely theoretical. But I am curious as to what the experienced crowd thinks. Do slightly weaker FMJs make more sense vs more powerful FMJs if FMJ is the only option, for a typical private citizen self defense situation ? (Obviously, the military has very different needs...)

 

[rpenmanparker]

Why bother carrying at all? .380s only have credibility nowadays as a SD round BECAUSE of the advancements in hollow point technology, not despite them. A lightly charged FMJ .380 is a placebo at best. It is just going to make you feel better...until you need it to do its job. Then you are going to be very sorry you succumbed to folk foolishness. The technology behind high energy, expanding bullets is sound. Undoing everything that has been gained in their development would be a huge mistake.

 

[GBExpat]

Do slightly weaker FMJs make more sense vs more powerful FMJs if FMJ is the only option, for a typical private citizen self defense situation ?

IMO, no.

 

[Wisco]

You really want good, reliable, high power ammo - whether FMJ or HP.

I don’t carry 380 anymore, but when I did I carried Buffalo Bore hardcast mostly. I’ve never been convinced HP will perform against fat criminals in winter clothes...but if you have premium 380 HP rounds that are close to 9x19 power, that’s probably better than FMJ. Weak FMJ isn’t very good at all for anything but paper.

I carry a 32 sometimes when wearing a suit. I sometimes carry hot FMJ or more often hardcast - I know exactly what I’m getting. I’d rather have overpenetration than under. The 8 rounds of 32 hardcast will make two holes apiece, no matter the body size or clothing. I’ll take that any day over HPs that might not go deep enough.

 

[rpenmanparker]

All I’m saying is that .380 had almost no standing as a SD round prior to the development of HP bullets. It isn’t just about penetration and it isn’t about holes. It is about delivery of energy. When a bullet stops penetrating it means all the energy has been delivered. When a bullet exits the body, it means that it still has energy, energy that hasn’t been delivered to the target. That is not what is wanted. I would prefer a short penetration of a high energy round to an overpenetration. Also two small diameter holes is not a great result. The damage done by the expanded bullet is much more severe.

 

[Tommygunn]

Does anyone have insight into how ARX Inceptor in .380ACP fit into the effectiveness formula?

 

[Sarge7402]

First there's only two guarenteed ways to stop a bad guy/gal and that's to cut their wires (read central nervous system) or drop their oil pressure (bleed them out). If they are truely fat (first lady I ever arrested as a town cop - first night on the street - was 5'4" in all dimensions) overpenetration probably won't be an issue. Normal sized humans and 9" is more than enough to hit thier vitals.

If you're carrying hard ball cause of feeding issues, get a box of PowRball or Glasser Safety Slugs. Both feed well and act like hollow points on entry

 

[Livin_Cincy]

The 380 ACP cartridge is responsible for the carnage of World War One and Two...

 

[JTQ]

But it seems that you'd still run the risk of overpenetration with a "full load" FMJ, which is a very serious consideration. ...

Do slightly weaker FMJs make more sense vs more powerful FMJs if FMJ is the only option, for a typical private citizen self defense situation ?

I'm pretty unconcerned about overpenetration, especially with a handgun round.

https://homedefensegun.net/the-myth-of-over-penetration/

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2014/7/16/overpenetration/

 

[C0untZer0]

OK, I know Gavrilo Princip used a 380 ACP to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand and that ignited WW I, but how is the 380 ACP responsible for the carnage of WW II ?

 

[JohnBiltz]

OK, I know Gavrilo Princip used a 380 ACP to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand and that ignited WW I, but how is the 380 ACP responsible for the carnage of WW II ?

The way WW I ended pretty much made WW II inevitable. Well maybe not inevitable but pretty hard to stop.

 

[FL-NC]

A hollow point that expands will trump a FMJ on target, every time. IMO, its just a matter of insuring the HP in question functions reliably in the given pistol.

 

[Gary A]

This guy has some interesting tests which coupled with others online should allow anyone to make a reasoned decision.

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/p/ammo-tests.html

 

[bnolsen]

I decided to go with fort Scott munitions solid copper as they feed like fmjs but are supposed to destabilize after initial penetration. For my p3at feeding reliability has been a serious issue.

 

[Wanderling]

OK, I know Gavrilo Princip used a 380 ACP to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand and that ignited WW I, but how is the 380 ACP responsible for the carnage of WW II ?

WWI and WWI was essentially the same war, just spread out.

 

[Wanderling]

If you're carrying hard ball cause of feeding issues,

I am carrying Hydra Shok. Was just asking a theoretical question.

 

[Tallball]

I don't claim to be entirely rational. I don't trust 32acp because it seems too small. I will carry 380 if that's all I can reasonably carry. If I carry 380, it's loaded with FMJ because in my experience they are less likely to jam and more likely to penetrate. I'm not claiming to be "right"; it's just what I'm comfortable with.

 

[Deus Machina]

I'm not a fan of FMJ for SD, but I'm also not a huge believer in the FBI 12" minimum.
FBI tests are for the FBI. More is good, but I'm less likely than them to have to shoot at someone padded up for it and behind a car door or glass. Like Sarge said, 9" is fine for anyone I can't run away from unless they roll downhill.
So use any good JHP that feeds well. Go with Pow'r'Ball if need be. Any JHP that feeds will act like FMJ at worst, IMO.
If you ever have to use something solid, I'd at least try something with a flat point on principle alone.

 

[Alec]

After much reading about various .380 loads, I came to the conclusion that reliably-expanding HPs will not penetrate enough and a round nose will overpenetrate. I settled on flat points— they should perform just like a HP that failed to expand, but without that risk of under penetration if it did.

I don’t think energy delivery or “energy dump” matters in handgun rounds.

 

[Hasaf]

As I said in another thread. There is so much good ammunition that two intelligent people could come to different conclusions, based on their perceived concerns, and neither of them would necessarily be wrong. That being said, I have settled on the Inceptor ARX ammunition.

This decision is based on things that have been mentioned above, concerns regarding performance after passing through clothing coupled with my concern for over penetration in urban environments. If I were not to use this ammunition, I would rely on the XTP hollow points.

 

[Hokkmike]

A shooter once told me "When the jackets (winter coats) come off then the FMJ's come out of the gun." In the winter he carries FMJ and the rest of the year a JHP of some kind. This with his .380.

A LGS owner said to me that time have changed and the .380 and guns that shoot it are considerably more efficacious than their predecessors. He himself, carries a P-238.

As for me, I just make sure that I use a top brand z-i-p-p-y SD load such as Sig Sauer Elite.

Also, I have recently acquired a P-365 to join the ranks of the ever ubiquitous 9mm family. But for the record, if anybody actually cares what I have to say, the G-42 is one very sweet and effective carry gun. Love it!

 

[JTQ]

I'm not a fan of FMJ for SD, but I'm also not a huge believer in the FBI 12" minimum.
FBI tests are for the FBI. More is good, but I'm less likely than them to have to shoot at someone padded up for it and behind a car door or glass. Like Sarge said, 9" is fine for anyone I can't run away from unless they roll downhill.

You are also less likely to be shooting somebody in a crowded area than the FBI.

 

[Zendude]

I don't know if HP vs FMJ is going to make a huge statistical difference. If over penetration is a concern, then go with the hollow point. It's always better to be confident in your choices than having nagging doubts.
Are there any 380 FMJ loads that are better quality than just the regular WWB or Blazer Brass type practice loads?

 

[scaatylobo]

So, personally, after watching ShootingTheBull's videos, I settled on Federal Hydra-Shoks - they performed very well in his tests, and are easily available in my location.

But I keep reading posts by people who carry FMJs instead of JHPs in their "mouse guns". It seems there just as many of them as the people using hollow point self defense ammo.

I understand the reasoning behind it. But it seems that you'd still run the risk of overpenetration with a "full load" FMJ, which is a very serious consideration. And nearly every FMJ advocate seems to have some fancy special order carry round.

So, I was thinking - wouldn't it make sense then, for someone dead set on carrying FMJs for maximum penetration, to use the various "target" rounds - which are sure to not be loaded too hot, while most likely still providing more than sufficient penetration vs an average JHP ?

To be honest, I don't think I will change my carry rounds just yet. The question is purely theoretical. But I am curious as to what the experienced crowd thinks. Do slightly weaker FMJs make more sense vs more powerful FMJs if FMJ is the only option, for a typical private citizen self defense situation ? (Obviously, the military has very different needs...)

A much greater mind and shooter than I, penned a missive that struck a cord with me.

Elmer Keith [ look him up IF you don't know about him ] ,once penned a missive about the EDCing of "mouse guns" [ as he called all small caliber pistols].

He stated that since you hunt DANGEROUS GAME [ and he did ] with solid bullets that do not expand,then do the same with a mouse gun for 'social' confrontations.

I saw his point and when I do carry a smaller caliber [ ONLY for a BUG ] then I carry ball ammo that is preferably as hot as I can find [ European stuff if possible ].

The newer and MUCH hotter ammo for the .380 is a good consideration,but I like the poster who said he carries Buffalo Bore ball ammo in his pop guns.

 

[rpenmanparker]

A much greater mind and shooter than I, penned a missive that struck a cord with me.

Elmer Keith [ look him up IF you don't know about him ] ,once penned a missive about the EDCing of "mouse guns" [ as he called all small caliber pistols].

He stated that since you hunt DANGEROUS GAME [ and he did ] with solid bullets that do not expand,then do the same with a mouse gun for 'social' confrontations.

I saw his point and when I do carry a smaller caliber [ ONLY for a BUG ] then I carry ball ammo that is preferably as hot as I can find [ European stuff if possible ].

The newer and MUCH hotter ammo for the .380 is a good consideration,but I like the poster who said he carries Buffalo Bore ball ammo in his pop guns.

Was Mr. Keith using a handgun against elephants, rhino, cape buffalo, hippos and the like? I think not. A whole different story.