Quantcast

Food for thought after being pulled over by a LEO for the first time while carrying

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by TomJ, Jun 29, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TomJ
    • Contributing Member

    TomJ Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    Illinois
    I just returned from vacation, where I spent a week in Wisconsin with my 12 year old son. As a little back ground, I also have a 23 year old son who drives safely now, but when he was younger drove too fast, leading to quite a few arguments between us. We were driving through a tourist area when I went through a yellow light that turned red just before I entered the intersection. I was wrong and as luck would have it there was a LEO driving behind me, and he pulled me over. As soon as my son saw I was being pulled over he started laughing and asked if I was getting a ticket. I told him I probably was and he pulled out his cell phone to text my older son, as he thought it was funny after all my safe driving lectures to my older son I was getting a ticket. I gave my license and CC permit to the officer and let him know my gun (I referred to it as "it") was in my right front pocket. He told me to leave it there and after running my license we had a brief conversation during which I was respectful and let him know I was in the wrong, and he let me off with a verbal warning. He could not have been more professional and polite and I appreciated the break.

    I did what I was supposed to, keeping my hands in plain view, etc., but it occurred to me afterwards that my son had no idea what to do in that scenario. By way of example, had he reached into his pocket for his cell phone while I was talking to the officer there's no way to know how the officer would react, not knowing what he was reaching for. I talked to my son afterwards about the things we should and should not do when pulled over (hopefully not again for a while, or ever), and just wanted to post a reminder to everyone who hasn't had that conversation with family members they drive with that it's a good idea to do so. LEO's have no idea who they're pulling over, and preventing any misunderstandings goes a long way towards keeping everyone safe.
     
    Demi-human, bk42261, JeffG and 14 others like this.
  2. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,984
    I always actively listen (repeat what they told me to do before doing it) and do so smoothly. I try and stick with “yes/no sir/officer”. Be polite, it’s not always a fun job.
     
  3. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    Tennessee
    hands on the dash or steering wheel plainly visible, obey the orders, be polite.
     
  4. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    3,771
    Location:
    Nostramo (in absentia), Segmentum Ultima
    Here in FL, it is technically legal to have a loaded pistol snapped in a holster on the passenger seat- this is considered "securely encased." Though I know a few guys who do so, it just seems like a bad idea to me. Mine comes off my belt and goes in the console box, still easily accessible, while my insurance and registration are kept in the door pocket.

    Though Ive only been pulled over twice in the last 20 years, neither time was I asked about any weapons in the car, nor did I volunteer the information, though I would answer truthfully if they did. I also keep it simple, keep it polite, and keep my hands on the wheel until asked to retrieve my documents.

    It always make me a bit nervous when I have to finagle my wallet out of my pocket and around the seat belt, though, so I will tell the officer exactly what Im doing and do it sloooooowly........
     
    P5 Guy and 40-82 like this.
  5. labnoti

    labnoti Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    951
    Illinois does not have a duty to inform unless asked. Wisconsin has no duty to inform. Is there a good reason to mention you're carrying or produce your permit if you're not asked for it?

    Whether you're carrying or not, or have a permit or not, it's wise during a stop to keep your hands in sight at all times and not to do anything with them that isn't expected and easy to understand.
     
    CZ9shooter and Armored farmer like this.
  6. TomJ
    • Contributing Member

    TomJ Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    Illinois
    My understanding is that when license plates are run it shows that you have a CC permit. Current LEO's can confirm whether this is true. Judging by the way he approached my car, very cautiously with his hand on his gun, I thought there was a chance he knew I had a permit and might be carrying. I wanted to let him know I had nothing to hide, and it worked. He was still attentive and professional afterwards, but seemed more relaxed.
     
    jar likes this.
  7. George P

    George P Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    3,021
    Not always. In Florida, one's CWFL is NOT tied to your DL or even to LEO. Most Southern states do not have a duty to inform. If it is legally not required, then there is no reason to add something else into the equation.
     
    redneck2, Rule3 and P5 Guy like this.
  8. labnoti

    labnoti Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    951
    I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but that's not good reasoning. Whether he ascertains your permit and carry status by running your plates or by you declaring it, the result is the same: he has good reason to believe you're carrying lawfully which should not affect his handling the contact. If you hadn't said anything, his plate check would have either informed him of a lawful carry status or it could have not provided that information in which case he'd not have any reason to treat you differently than any other contact.

    I don't see how showing your permit or declaring your gun would put an officer at ease. If I was the officer I would think you're unnecessarily enthusiastic about having a gun in your pocket.
     
    bearcreek, shoobe01, 40-82 and 3 others like this.
  9. TomJ
    • Contributing Member

    TomJ Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    Illinois
    I've never heard that, but will give that some thought. All I said was it's in my front right pocket and we moved on.
     
  10. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,714
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    Actually the standard for being pulled over by another officer while off duty is to identify yourself and if you are armed of not. I don’t see anything wrong with a legally armed citizen showing the same courtesy. It’s going to reduce tension if your firearm is inadvertently exposed during the contact.
     
  11. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    5,611
    Location:
    TX
    In TX, we inform. In general, I would anywhere because of the risk that an accidental exposure of the gun may lead to an officer (for whatever reason, stress, bias, inexperience) reacting badly. We see that some legal carriers have had very bad interactions when what seems sensible and compliant movements to the civilian have been misinterpreted as threat.

    I would not move a muscle unless instructed to and I would follow orders exactly.

    I have had several interactions with officers and all have worked out. After a bad traffic accident, the officer asked to disarm me and I complied. Wasn't my fault but I could see his point as tempers might flare. However, after another bad accident (idiot rear ended a line of cars at full speed), the officers did not care that I was armed as we did the reports and he drove me home in his police car (my car was totaled).
     
    jar and NIGHTLORD40K like this.
  12. George P

    George P Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    3,021
    If you are seated, how is it going to be inadvertently exposed when it is in your pocket?
    If there is no legal duty to inform, then why add another variable into the scenario?
     
    BSA1 likes this.
  13. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,714
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    Well that kind of depends on how big your pockets are. I pocket carried for a lot of years and even with a good pocket holster it printed occasionally.

    If you aren’t legally required to reveal your armed, don’t. It’s your choice. I always appreciated knowing someone was armed legally. And my standard procedure the one time I was pulled over off duty was to turn the dome light on, place both hands on top of wheel and identify myself as an off duty officer, and that I was armed and ask how he wanted to proceed. On occasion I pulled over off duty officers who followed the same procedure.

    I don’t see the difference between a legally armed citizen and an off duty officer in that situation. Everyone’s cards are on the table.

    One thing I’ve noticed in threads like this over the years is that many CCW holders have a huge (and to me irrational) fear of being temporarily disarmed during an LE contact.

    I never quite understood why the possibility of being disarmed at gun point and cuffed for the duration of the contact was preferable to surrendering your weapon. To each his own I guess.....

    Some states return permit information with drivers license info on the MDC, some don’t. Some states only return that information to inquiries from within the state automatically and officers in other states have to request it.

    All in all the worst fears of police administrators and concealed carry holders have failed to materialize as concealed carry expanded throughout the country. Permit holders aren’t being subjected to felony stops for being a couple seconds late on a traffic light and officers aren’t being murdered by permit holders upset over a speeding ticket.

    Most interactions go very smoothly. Just like “normal” traffic stops.
     
    460Shooter, jar and Good Ol' Boy like this.
  14. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    15,234
    Location:
    Happy Valley, UT
    In Utah they know if you have a permit and will ask if you don't let them know. So I let them know, and they are generally appreciative.

    I even give them the permit if I'm not carrying that day because they always ask if I don't.

    Generally if your record shows you're not a habitual lawbreaker and you are calm and respectful they treat you well.
     
  15. TomJ
    • Contributing Member

    TomJ Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    Illinois
    All I can tell you is that it was a judgment call on my part and in hindsight it was the right call. My experience is that the majority of police officers are good people doing a difficult job and I trusted that he would read the situation for what it was, a father and son on vacation and that I posed no threat. There was certainly the chance that I was being pulled over by one of the minority of police officers who are, for lack of a better word jerks, but I wasn't. If you're not comfortable disclosing that you're carrying, don't. The point I was making with this post and where I was wrong was not previously discussing with my son how to act if we were ever pulled over.
     
  16. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,649
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    As you know WI has no duty to inform unless asked, but there's nothing wrong with what you did, Tom. I've had two encounters while carrying, one where I did get out of the car, (accident) and they never asked. Yes, I made sure both my sons understood early on how to act in such situations. Their grandfather, the cop, sat them down and told them. Both have been very polite in encounters with LE.
     
    TomJ likes this.
  17. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,403
    Location:
    Colorado
    My wife and I make it a rule that if we should ever be pulled over (it's been more than 10 years for both of us) who ever is driving does the talking the other keeps their mouth shut.

    I got pulled over on my way home from work on night in 2007. The cop walked up to my car, introduced himself, told me exactly why he stopped me and informed me that he wouldn't be giving me a ticket. Then he asked me if there were any weapons in the vehicle.

    I said nothing and handed him my permit and he went ballistic. He told me I was required to inform him immediately if I was armed (false). He threatened to arrest me and I decided I was never going to volunteer to a cop that I was armed.

    Know your state's laws exactly and abide by them no more no less
     
    .308 Norma, Ironicaintit and George P like this.
  18. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,645
    Location:
    Tampa Bay area
    I've always been courteous when pulled over and NEVER been given a warning.
    I wonder what I'm doing wrong?
    Anyway, if your state ties the CCW to the driver license why ask if you are carrying? Wouldn't the patrol person automatically assume that, and since you have been background checked be a known 'good guy/gal'?
     
    Demi-human likes this.
  19. George P

    George P Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    3,021
    Because you might not be carrying at that time - you might not have any gun in the car, or if going interstate, it might be unloaded and in the trunk. So, if he asks if you are carrying, the correct answer would be no. If it's in the trunk, then followed by, I have it unloaded in the trunk
     
  20. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,984
    15 years or so ago, I was in town and arrived at a “road block” that’s very uncommon in my State. Uncommon for officers to approach the vehicle from the front but that was the case.

    I made sure to have my window down and my hands at solidly at 10&2 on whe wheel when I made it to him.

    He asked if I had any firearms in the car, I said yes. He’s asked where and I pointed up with my thumbs and looked up.

    He bent down to see the muzzle end of the rifle in the rack and said, “Oh”. Took a step backwards and motioned me on.

    38895C0D-D4BF-4577-B96D-6F52950991C8.jpeg C67DD094-A619-4F9B-9C12-6F9DCF141339.jpeg

    The interaction was very odd, for both of us.
     
    Keyfer 55, Demi-human and 460Shooter like this.
  21. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,553
    Location:
    Florida
  22. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    8,375
    A number of people whom I know have been stopped on the Interstate that leads past the shooting range in Arnold, MO. It's easy to exceed the limit there.

    Most of them do inform, though it is not required. Few receive tickets.

    Here is a relevant thought. Suppose that your car meets the description of one that is thought to have been near a crime scene. That, and not your speed, might have been the reason for the stop. Informing the officer might reduce the tension level.

    And if you are asked to ger out of the car, your gun may be exposed. Best to have informed the officer first, I think.
     
  23. Balrog

    Balrog Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,514
    I have been pulled over a few times but never gotten a ticket. I am polite and respectful, which goes a long way I guess with not getting a ticket. I have never informed the police officer that I have a weapon, and none ever asked.

    The Georgia Carry and NRA endowment stickers on my back windshield probably give me away as a gun toter though.
     
    JimKirk likes this.
  24. Hickok_Aficionado

    Hickok_Aficionado Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Illinois
    I have not been pulled over since I received my carry permit (Illinois), but my instructor, a former LEO, gave the class what I consider some good advice. Hands on the wheel until asked for a driver license and when you hand it too him/her include your permit and the location of your firearm as well. I keep them together in my wallet and plan on following his advice if ever in that situation. OBTW, my firearm is always in the center console when I'm driving, the idea being that it is less accesable than on my person and that will, hopefully, be more comfortable for the officer.
     
  25. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,403
    Location:
    Colorado
    Did they stop you just asked you if you had guns in the car?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice