Fostech Echo AR-II Trigger

Status
Not open for further replies.

ShootingIsFun

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
139
Location
Ohio
I've been eyeing the Fostech Echo triggers for quite a while - what was originally an exceptionally long wait time + the high price kept me from"pulling the trigger"...
I'm glad I waited though because they revised their design to allow the use of any m-16 bolt carrier instead of their proprietary one. I'm sorry I waited until after the Vegas shooting though... They went from "ships in three days" to "ships in three weeks"...
I went ahead and placed my order. The next day they adjusted their wait time to 4-6 weeks...
Does anyone here have experience with one of these and if so, is it (hopefully) worth the $479?
 
Last edited:
Does anyone here have experience with one of these and if so, is it (hopefully) worth the $479?

Yes, I do, and no, they're not worth even a fraction of that. Cheaply made gimmick garbage. I wouldn't install one if it were free, would rather have a standard trigger.

Sell it (possibly at a profit right now) and buy a Hyperfire or quality drop in and call it good.
 
Yes, I do, and no, they're not worth even a fraction of that. Cheaply made gimmick garbage. I wouldn't install one if it were free, would rather have a standard trigger.

Sell it (possibly at a profit right now) and buy a Hyperfire or quality drop in and call it good.
No doubt it's a gimmick and selling it at a profit isn't terrible advice, but you're the first one I've heard say that they're cheaply made. To what is this negative perception owed?
 
Not that I've seen them or handled them, but a trigger that costs over $400 would have to exhibit some highly skilled fit, finish, and a proprietary feature to justify the price. Making the statement that they are made "cheaply" in the light of their selling price isn't without some justification. What does justify the price at present is the amount of development expense that is yet to be repaid thru profit. And there is also the financial limitation of high price, ie the "NFA Tax Stamp" burden, which does apply in that a high price keeps less well off individuals from purchasing them. That alone does affect who can buy them by imposing a restriction on those who don't exhibit good life skills to earn more money.

What we have yet to see is a copy which skirts the patent laws and sells for $185. It's coming eventually and then we will have to address how they will be used. Frankly it an expensive way to put rounds into a beaten zone when even casually aimed rapid fire could result in more hits. That can be seen using a video firing simulator. Rapid aimed fire generally got more hits on a mass crowd than spray and pray. The requirement, however, is a cool head and exposure, which is contraindicated when operating on a two way range. In other words, "we aint' got no time fo dat."

So, full auto became common in military weapons, much the same as double stack magazines in combat pistols. But - it doesn't mean it's the best way for a person to defend themselves in a bad situation. Which is why plenty of us use single stack 9mm's and single fire triggers. The calculation of risk where you will "need" some kind of rapidly firing weapon is smaller than being hit by a drunk driver or having your health care professional administer a lethal dose by mistake.

Therefore, what we do celebrate using them is 1) the freedom to exercise the 2A, and 2) entertainment value at a range where rapid fire is tolerated. Something increasingly rare on public ranges as many who operate them have seen the damage from those who just launch a series of bullets downrange willy nilly with no thought of what they will do outside of making noise. There is a segment of the shooting public who exercise volume fire for the fireworks effect, who rarely make use of the opportunity to learn and observe it's value. To them they are exercising their freedom first, not defensive capability. Really not much different than those who bought a 50 round banana mag for their 10/22 in the day and blasted away. Remember? Right, lets not get too righteous over it, we did our best in various ways to enjoy the same thing decades back. And we had a lot less supervision on ranges and a lot more ad hoc places on the side of the road to shoot. Every one I used in the past is now fenced and posted. Times have changed but not the people.

At present binary triggers are still priced prohibitively, as they are nearly the same cost as the entry level guns they can be installed in. When the price drops to a more reasonable level they might be more attractive, but I'm not of the mind they will be "better" in certain situations. One basic requirement to be effective in use is the presence of a large number of targets. The military casually states it needs to be a "target rich environment." That so rarely happens for the civilian shooter that he has to seek out the situation - like, hog hunting. Otherwise, seasonal limits apply - so needing the trigger vs wanting the trigger is a very wide divide.

I have an AR pistol which I largely use to hunt deer in season. I could imagine a cool sidecharging binary version for home defense or a trunk gun - but it would make it even more a special purpose firearm with even more limited uses. Local range rules would prohibit me firing it, I have to keep it on slow. Because of that I can't say if or even when I might bother getting one, any more than some single shot folding pistol made for deep concealment, or a smart gun to keep others from using it. The purpose of the trigger, to fire more rounds faster, is nice to have, but not necessary. Even in the military, as we have often rules of engagement which prohibit even three round bursts. It's not something commonly used until the bigger crew served weapons are given a call to fire - and we should consider that.

Just because we can doesn't mean we should. At least we have the freedom to decide, tho, and that is important.
 
but you're the first one I've heard say that they're cheaply made. To what is this negative perception owed?

Have you handled one? Aside from the selector levers and booster pins, the finish on the parts is similar to a pot metal cap gun. The local shop I smith for just brought in and installed two of them for customers. One worked, albeit with a nasty, gritty pull. The other barely went into the lower, and did not function at all. In regular mode, the disconnector wouldn't let go. In dual function mode (I won't call it binary because that's not a correct description of the part, just an attempt to make a gimmick sound sophisticated), it was completely dead. I looked it over, and the cause was poor manufacturing tolerances. He asked me to work on it, but I won't service anything I consider to be of questionable design or quality, so I instructed him to have the customer deal with Fostech and get a replacement or refund.

Bottom line, if a company selling a trigger that costs more than any other on the market can't be bothered to function test them before selling and put a finish on the parts that's at least comparable to standard $30 fire control bits, they deserve negative press.
 
Thanks for the feedback MachIV & Tirod - it's safe to say that I do have high expectations when it comes to quality, fit, function and finish. Anything short of excellence will be a disappointment.
I'm still looking for anyone who owns one of these to provide an opinion... Fostech has been selling the Echo trigger faster than they can make them for over a year now - surely a few of you guys own one?...
 
I've been eyeing the Fostech Echo triggers for quite a while - what was originally an exceptionally long wait time + the high price kept me from"pulling the trigger"...
I'm glad I waited though because they revised their design to allow the use of any m-16 bolt carrier instead of their proprietary one. I'm sorry I waited until after the Vegas shooting though... They went from "ships in three days" to "ships in three weeks"...
I went ahead and placed my order. The next day they adjusted their wait time to 4-6 weeks...
Does anyone here have experience with one of these and if so, is it (hopefully) worth the $479?
I think at the point you need something that can fire fast like this, they will be handing them out or they will be lying around. So no, I don't think it is worth the money.
 
I think at the point you need something that can fire fast like this, they will be handing them out or they will be lying around. So no, I don't think it is worth the money.
I have no illusions that this is something I need... For me, the primary function of this trigger is fun and entertainment. If I'm being honest with myself, very few of my firearms were purchased out of need.
 
Can't speak to the Fostech but I have a Franklin.
The take up, break, and reset are way better than any unpolished milspec. If you install one of these, follow the instructions step by step. If you take the mind set that you have installed triggers
before and you don't need no stinkin instructions
you will have problems.
 
Can't speak to the Fostech but I have a Franklin.
The take up, break, and reset are way better than any unpolished milspec. If you install one of these, follow the instructions step by step. If you take the mind set that you have installed triggers
before and you don't need no stinkin instructions
you will have problems.
Thanks for the advice. I plan on watching plenty of videos on install
 
Tirod said:
At present binary triggers are still priced prohibitively, as they are nearly the same cost as the entry level guns they can be installed in.
I'm not sure what you mean here, exactly. I'm not familiar with many binary trigger systems, but the Franklin Armory ones are less than $450. And they could be installed in ANY AR-15, whether it also cost $450 or it cost $4,500.

Tirod said:
... I'm not of the mind they will be "better" in certain situations. One basic requirement to be effective in use is the presence of a large number of targets. The military casually states it needs to be a "target rich environment." That so rarely happens for the civilian shooter that he has to seek out the situation - like, hog hunting. Otherwise, seasonal limits apply - so needing the trigger vs wanting the trigger is a very wide divide.

I disagree, and I have some experience to back that up.

I used an AR with a binary trigger in a shoot house during a match last month. The capacity to get two hits on a target per trigger operation was easily employed and quite nice. Very predictable and controllable. In any situation where one would have trained to "double-tap" a target, this would make total sense. If two hits are a good plan, two near-simultaneous hits per pull of the trigger, both printing to POA, are certainly not a hardship! And if you're of a mind to pull the trigger twice, that's four well placed hits instead of two.

There would be no requirement for a "large number of targets," any more than you'd need to have a "large number of targets" to perform a DT or Mozambique on a single threat target.


If we limit ourselves to hunting scenarios, this probably doesn't apply. The effects are not very helpful at the distances most of us shoot a deer, and would probably be a bit of a dangerous liability. (Though I haven't fired one at 100 yds, to see what the spread of hits really is off a good rested position.)

If we limit ourselves to conventional, open-terrain, military warfare, where automatic rifle fire is often used for area denial and keeping an enemy formation's heads down, that's somewhat difficult to envision as a "civilian" use case.


But if we think of how a trained user fires a submachine gun or assault rifle in urban/house-clearing type operations, squeezing off aimed two- and three-shot bursts at selected targets between 0 and maybe 15 yards away, a binary trigger will absolutely be an asset.

Here's a simple video (with too much talking) that illustrates a decent shooter putting very controlled pairs on a moving target with a binary trigger AR:

SKIP TO 1:30

 
Last edited:
Kind of disappointing to receive zero responses from Echo trigger others...
Are they that uncommon?
 
Got an email this morning that Fostech has sent me a package! ... Now I just need to get my rear in gear and pick up a few more parts so that I'll be able to put this rifle together and have some fun when it arrives!
 
Got an email this morning that Fostech has sent me a package! ... Now I just need to get my rear in gear and pick up a few more parts so that I'll be able to put this rifle together and have some fun when it arrives!

Thanks for sharing the update. I placed my order on Friday 10/13 from OpticsPlanet and it hasn't shipped.

I also got an email on 10/16 from OpticsPlanet indicating a 4-7 week wait, did they send you that mail as well?

Does it appear the trigger was drop shipped directly from Fostech?

Thanks for your feedback. Interested in your opinions once the trigger arrives.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for sharing the update. I placed my order on Friday 10/13 from OpticsPlanet and it hasn't shipped.

I also got an email on 10/16 from OpticsPlanet indicating a 4-7 week wait, did they send you that mail as well?

Does it appear the trigger was drop shipped directly from Fostech?

Thanks for your feedback. Interested in your opinions once the trigger arrives.

I ordered mine directly from Fostech
On 10/5 their site said all orders shipping in three days
On 10/6 that changed to the weeks - I placed my order at that time
On 10/8 I saw that their site had changed again - now it said 4-6 weeks
On 11/6 I received a ship notification.
USPS is stating expected delivery of 11/9
So for me it was 5 weeks almost to the day.
Sounds like yours is being dropped shipped and I imagine it should arrive soon.
Work & home have both been crazy busy for me lately with no signs of letting up soon - I don't know when I'll get the chance to try out the trigger - let me know how it goes if you get there before me!
 
I have the Franklin Armory Gen II and the Echo Gen I. Installation on the Echo was easier because it just dropped in. The Franklin Armory took a little adjusting in my SBR with the shims they provided. As far as function they were both flawless and they are a ton of fun! As far as some of the guys commenting on the price, I am a firm believer in pay what it is worth to you!
 
66BCB501-4287-46F9-A7AC-E02B68B7C449.jpeg I put one of the fostech triggers in an SBR in .300 BO haven’t played with it too much but it does work and I haven’t had any issues.
 
Nice! I considered going the 300 blk route on this build but the prospect of rapid fire ammo cost swayed me away from the round. (I'll probably still build a 300 blk upper soon... I already bought a bunch of clear Lancer mags with the idea being that they're exclusively for 300 blk to help avoid an ammo mixup that makes me look like a moron...)
 
As far as some of the guys commenting on the price, I am a firm believer in pay what it is worth to you!
I hear what you're saying - I just hope I get what I paid for! It's a lot of dough to lay out for a trigger - Luckily, I think the fact that I didn't "buy another gun" helped this one slip beneath the wifes radar! :thumbup:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top