Fox 5 DC major security fail

[old lady new shooter]

We often talk here about securing our environment as the first step in self-defense. Here is a textbook case.

A couple of hours ago a guy broke into the Fox 5 building in DC. The surveillance video shows him kicking in both the exterior and second glass security doors, which are described as "bullet-resistant glass". He was an average-sized guy wearing sneakers and didn't even have to kick very hard, used what I guess you could call a mule kick, i.e. he was facing away from each door as he kicked the glass in. After he got into the lobby per se the security guard first attempted to defuse the situation but that didn't work so she shot him once in the chest. (He was alert when put into the ambulance. So much for Hollywood fantasies of one shot instantly killing the BG, but I digress.) Thanks to her quick action, no employees were hurt and there was no other property damage.

Here's why I'm calling this a security fail: The "bullet-resistant glass" (presumably glass to which 3M security film or a similar product had been applied) didn't break, rather fell inside in one piece. Why? Because installing this film is a two-step process, first (after careful cleaning of the glass) the film is applied, and then after it has cured, a border is applied that secures the film-covered glass to the frame. The first step is useless without the second step and it sure looks like that's what happened here. Outfits that sell the security film install it properly, but I believe it's possible to buy the film directly and install it oneself, after watching the video I'm betting that the maintenance department decided it couldn't be difficult to install window film and would save a lot of money to do it themselves, then didn't bother educating themselves as to the proper methodology.

Will be interesting to see whether this is even discussed in later news reports.

 

[alfsauve]

Had a little trouble with the second door.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/fox-5-dc-guard-shoots-man-who-allegedly-tried-breaking-into-building

 

[old lady new shooter]

Watching the video again from your link, I noticed that actually the window frames came off as well, they must not have been properly secured into the frame of the building.

 

[WestKentucky]

Good for the SG. Too bad they will have nightmares about this for the rest of their lives. I’m sure that this is somehow going to be spun as an incredibly harsh and improper reaction. I bet there is an outcry to disarm the SGs

 

[lemaymiami]

Sounds like a good outcome to me - despite the woeful physical security failure...

On that same topic, down here in paradise (south Florida) there's a thriving business in upgrading residential and commercial window installations with "hurricane rated" windows... What many aren't aware of is that part of that hurricane proof installation involves some very specific reinforcing to the concrete frame area that the windows are set into - mostly not hard to do in new construction - but generally neglected in residential up-grades... The window might just survive the high winds and bad impacts - but it might not still be where it was supposed to be...

I'm not a construction type - the above information was related to me by someone who is... Me, I still rely on the waterproofed 1/2" plywood storm shutters I built almost thirty years ago...

 

[jmorris]

Not sure if it’s a fail, he looked like more of a threat gaining entrance than he did being put into the ambulance.

If the SG had a desk up front they were likely already on target by the time he went through the 2nd door.

I don’t think there is anything you can do to keep someone determined out, rather you just slow them down so you are ready when they gain entrance.

One reason why I feel better about my outside motion sensors that the inside alarm. One tells me if there is anything out there and the other says I am out of time to prepare.

 

[jmorris]

Also looks like all that gained him was access to the lobby where he was shot (after being pepper sprayed.

The 2nd video in this link is from inside the lobby afterwards.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/...an-Trying-to-Get-Into-Building-498232931.html

Looks like more doors that are not glass.

I think the fail might have been that he was still out in public.

In November, records show that Odemns was placed under emergency psychiatric care in the District after emailing death threats to D.C. police and the D.C. Office of Human Resources and threatening a federal judge who had dismissed one of his suits. In addition, he was involuntarily committed in 2015, court records show.

Odemns was charged with murder in the District in 2002, but court records indicate that the charge was dismissed soon after he was arrested.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3ef304d954f7

In August, he was charged with assault on a police officer who was attempting to break up a verbal argument, according to police documents.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/...an-Trying-to-Get-Into-Building-498232931.html

My money is that his only down time will be in the hospital too. Until his next adventure...

 

[old lady new shooter]

I don’t think there is anything you can do to keep someone determined out, rather you just slow them down so you are ready when they gain entrance.

Yep, 3M has a video on their website comparing a glass door with the security film to one without, with a guy trying to break in by first firing a pistol to break the glass. He gets in through the regular door in 3 seconds but needs 58 seconds to get in through the one with the security film. I have the security film on all my windows as part of a "find an easier house" strategy -- no reason for me to be a specific target, making my house a lot harder to get into than others nearby should hopefully divert any problems. And if BG persists, then, yes, at least I have time to get ready.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Also looks like all that gained him was access to the lobby where he was shot (after being pepper sprayed.

Yes, the layout is designed for security, to make it take a long time to even get into the lobby.

The 2nd video in this link is from inside the lobby afterwards.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/...an-Trying-to-Get-Into-Building-498232931.html

Finally found the one you meant. BTW in the comments section I found the following:

This article fails to mention something important - there are no armed security guards in DC. Armed personnel are Special Police Officers, and are classified as law enforcement officers while on duty.​

Looks like more doors that are not glass.

I think the fail might have been that he was still out in public.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3ef304d954f7

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/...an-Trying-to-Get-Into-Building-498232931.html

My money is that his only down time will be in the hospital too. Until his next adventure...

A big part of the reason safety has declined in the US is public policy based on the theory that confining people with mental illness to a mental hospital violates their civil rights.

 

[sota]

@old lady new shooter and yet someone can deprive you of your civil right to own a firearm just by accusing you of something. Funny how that works.

 

[waterhouse]

The mule kick is a pretty good method of door breaching, outside of metal doors in metal frames or anything fortified from the opposite side.

 

[old lady new shooter]

@old lady new shooter and yet someone can deprive you of your civil right to own a firearm just by accusing you of something. Funny how that works.

Hopefully that will prove to be a passing phase.

 

[old lady new shooter]

The mule kick is a pretty good method of door breaching, outside of metal doors in metal frames or anything fortified from the opposite side.

That's very interesting. I'd never seen it before. Usually when you see photos or video of a door being kicked in it is a large guy wearing hard shoes kicking frontwards.

 

[BWS]

From a door security standpoint..... having installed a few hundred.Along with security "systems" that relate to their operations.

Just take this as an observation, no dog in the discussion.On most security applications where "traffic" is concerned, the operation of the door on a day-day..... minute-minute basis WAY overrides any actual breach resistance. Put another way,install a security/fire door and have the mechanism fail,even once..... and be an inconvenience or worse,an issue with egress( fire) and,it's a major problem. How often will it get breach tested?

Worst situation we were ever in was replacing 100 year old doors on a private college with pretty,state of the art security/fire doors on a....... wait for it...

Dorm where they "housed" their Lacrosse players. We'd hang a door in the morning and by evening they'd be drunk and have it kicked in.....

So,the door and window systems that got breached in the OP, may have undergone testing at some point in their design,but believe me.... that takes a back seat to whether it functions with reliability.

 

[lemaymiami]

Considering physical security... you need to set aside the various claims from manufacturers about their products while at the same time looking carefully at your risk factors.... Put simply you'll need a much different level of security for a private jewelry operation or a controversial broadcasting outfit -than a public building that's accessed by the general public day in and day out... -just one example...

Compounding the problem is that tenants in the majority of commercial properties aren't the owners of their building - so the tenants may have a lot different needs than the owners will have... Everything I've said brings me to this point... Everyone has to individually examine their circumstances and the probability that they might be a target... From that evaluation you'll have to decide how well to fortify (or whether your risk is so low that it might not justify the cost and effort...).

Having an outside outfit with real skills in the security field might be a very good first step for any business (or individual) that believes they face a particular threat. These days, with the current state of our politics any public broadcasting outfit that takes controversial stands on "hot button" issues should have a full physical security review and do it periodically to keep up to date.... You may not be able to do much about the entry area to your building - but there's a lot you can do for your specific area....

I was taught (all those years ago...) that any physical security was just a delay factor against a determined opponent - and that layers of security that allowed you to prepare for a serious confrontation (or have an alarm summon a professional response) were the means you'd employ... Remember that there's a big difference in the delay factor a bad actor faces without tools - but absolutely no "delay factor" if your opponent is willing to use a vehicle (or something similar) to breach your outer perimeters.... Anyone that's ever owned a small gun shop will be able to recount what happens to a storefront if a car or truck is used to gain initial entry... That's why you'll see serious vehicle barriers in front of most of them (hopefully before they get hit...).

I'm long out of this field but try to keep current with the basic threats that we all face -from the homeowner - all the way up to a business or public institution that might really get targeted some day...

 

[waterhouse]

That's very interesting. I'd never seen it before. Usually when you see photos or video of a door being kicked in it is a large guy wearing hard shoes kicking frontwards.

I’m not a doctor and have limited knowledge of how a knee is built, but I have been told that the front kick on a door that doesn’t breach is very stressful on a knee joint.

I tend to front kick interior doors which tend to be weak and I need to be looking forward, because often on an interior door you don’t have a whole team with you as they spread out through a house.

Ideally at a front door you have a ram, but if not I always use a mule kick on a front door. It is safer for the knee, more powerful, and it doesn’t matter that you are facing the wrong way because the rest of the team is right there to cover you.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I’m not a doctor and have limited knowledge of how a knee is built, but I have been told that the front kick on a door that doesn’t breach is very stressful on a knee joint.

I tend to front kick interior doors which tend to be weak and I need to be looking forward, because often on an interior door you don’t have a whole team with you as they spread out through a house.

Ideally at a front door you have a ram, but if not I always use a mule kick on a front door. It is safer for the knee, more powerful, and it doesn’t matter that you are facing the wrong way because the rest of the team is right there to cover you.

The amount of stuff I don't know never ceases to amaze me. <g but serious>

The most surprising statement above to me was that the mule kick is more powerful. I don't have any explanation for why I assumed the opposite, but it's very interesting to know.

 

[jmorris]

You might like these.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com.au/videos/fight-science/the-most-powerful-kick-3683.aspx

 

[herrwalther]

Good thing about working in corrections for 2 years, I got to see how with enough time you can wear down any security measure. I have seen grown men scratch their way through 4 inches of bullet resistant plexiglass just to get a cigarette smuggled from outside. Security measures just slow down so they either give up or reinforcements show up. That door went down way too fast for any half decent security. Any company that wants to take their physical security seriously needs to invest in consultants that test their measures against a determined assault.