Foxnews Alert: Gunman on VA Tech campus

[FireArmFan]

Fox News just said that the gunman was identified as Cho Seung-Hui a 23 yr old South Korean, resident alien.

 

[ZeSpectre]

The last thing needed are guns on people. Could a CCW on scene help in this situation? maybe, but chances are the shooting would have still happened, and then you may have a crossfire situation. - Fish Miner

Wow, I JUST had this conversation with some people at work (see this thread
Head in the Sand -Related to VA Tech Shooting)

I try to stand in other people's shoes, to understand their point of view, in these threads but I find I am simply unable to twist my mind around to the point where I'd be more worried about a "crossfire" than being rounded up and massacred like a fish in a barrel.

 

[armoredman]

Huge attack article on Comcast news, attacks from that pawn of IANSA, Howard of Austrailia, from that pardigm of safety, England, from the country of peace, love, and free beer, China, all attacking our "gun culture" and "gun laws".

 

[RealGun]

I try to stand in other people's shoes, to understand their point of view, in these threads but I find I am simply unable to twist my mind around to the point where I'd be more worried about a "crossfire" than being rounded up and massacred like a fish in a barrel.

My concern about a lot of hero talk is that one has no license to shoot or legal support unless personally threatened. Anything else and one is on the line between hero, felon, or casualty depending upon how it goes and what the police and county prosecutor think about it.

 

[xd9fan]

So your ellected officials and LEOs are not responsible for your protection,

BUT

they have the power to disarm you and render you defensless!

What the h*** is wrong with this picture???

In a word......compliance

Charlton Heston's words: Harvard Law school speech

"Disobedience is in our DNA. We feel innate kinship with that disobedient spirit that tossed tea into Boston Harbor, that sent Thoreau to jail, that refused to sit in the back of the bus, that protested a war in Viet Nam.

In that same spirit, I am asking you to disavow cultural correctness with massive disobedience of rogue authority, social directives and onerous law that weaken personal freedom.

Before you claim to be a champion of free thought, tell me: Why did political correctness originate on America's campuses? And why do you continue to tolerate it? Why do you, who're supposed to debate ideas, surrender to their suppression?

Let's be honest. Who here thinks your professors can say what they really believe?

It scares me to death and should scare you too, that the superstition of political correctness rules the halls of reason.

You are the best and the brightest. You, here in the fertile cradle of American academia, here in the castle of learning on the Charles River, you are the cream. But I submit that you, and your counterparts across the land, are the most socially conformed and politically silenced generation since Concord Bridge. And as long as you validate that...and abide it...you are - by your grandfathers' standards - cowards."


If a law takes away my right of self protection.......I will not follow that law. Period.

 

[whited]

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My concern about a lot of hero talk is that one has no license to shoot or legal support unless personally threatened.

That's an interesting view.

 

[BobTheTomato]

Quote from CNN about the guns:

A source familiar with the investigation said the weapons found at Norris were a Walther .22-caliber semi-automatic and a 9 mm Glock -- both with the serial numbers filed off

Looks like they were bought illegally

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Fox News [9:58 AM EDT]
Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said the shooter was a 23-year-old resident alien who was an undergraduate senior English major. He had a residence in Centreville, Va., but was also living on campus in Harper Hall.

. . . . .

Flinchum said a 9-mm and 22-caliber handgun was recovered from Norris Hall. Bullets, shell casings and other evidence was examined by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

"Lab results confirmed that one of the two weapons seized in Norris Hall was used in both shootings," Flinchum said.

opinion on other issues follows

As far as the stuff reported by armoredman:

Huge attack article on Comcast news, attacks from that pawn of IANSA, Howard of Austrailia, from that pardigm of safety, England, from the country of peace, love, and free beer, China, all attacking our "gun culture" and "gun laws".

VT campus is a "{legal} gun free zone" which proves the uselessness of anti gun policy.

A foreigner run amok proves what about American gun culture? American gun culture would allow law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms for their self defense. Licensed concealed carry was forbidden at VT under threat of expulsion. VT campus policy represents anti gun culture.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

If the serial numbers were filed off, the metal underneath
would have been stressed by the stamping process and the
serial numbers may be raised by special lab techniques.
The seriousness of this incident warrants that expense.

 

[JLStorm]

Quick question...where in the constitution does it promise the same rights citizens of the US have to resident aliens? I know states have adopted the laws that resident aliens can purchase guns and obtain CCW, and I dont know if I am for or against this, I really havent thought it through....my question is when did we adopt this policy and are their rights REALLY guaranteed by the US?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

My concern about a lot of hero talk is that one has no license to shoot or legal support unless personally threatened.

Under Tennessee SD law one may use lethal force to protect an
innocent third party from imminent death or bodily harm. The
evidence available to you at the time to make such a determination
had better be convincing to a "reasonable person" (prosecutor and/or
grand jury in the calm and security of a courthouse).

If I saw an armed man shooting students, I hope I would do whatever
it took to stop him. I would feel obligated morally irregardless of VA
law on SD. I woukld hate myself if I did nothing worthwhile. If illegal,
I would plead justification of necessity.

It appears to be that under the VT circumstances, the only gun control
that would have worked would have allowing CCW license holders to
carry for SD, rather than guaranteeing an unarmed victim zone to a madman
who obviously did not obey many laws more important than gun laws.

 

[ojibweindian]

The serial numbers may have been defaced, but reports are saying that there was a receipt for a gun in the perp's book bag.

It's possible that he bought the gun(s) legally, then removed the serial numbers from the frame.

 

[cngerms]

Fish Miner says:

Universities are already a pressure cooker for the students

So is life, in general, for EVERYONE! Does that mean we should all melt down our guns and refuse self-protection? The next time you get laid off, have marital difficulties, struggle to pay your mortgage, or bail your kid out of jail, you should immediately surrender all of your guns at the nearest police station!

I work at a university with almost 50K students, and with all the drinking, drugs, relationships, studies and the experience of being out on your own for the first time, the last thing needed are guns on people.

Again, how is this different from life outside of the university setting?

Could a CCW on scene help in this situation? maybe, but chances are the shooting would have still happened, and then you may have a crossfire situation.

Yep, the shooting would still have occurred (that's why we carry) and there may have been crossfire, but a body count of 1 or 2 is a lot better than 33. Who dies in crossfire? THE INNOCENT! Oh, wait, the innocent are already dead at VA Tech. :banghead:

this is a freak accident, don't think it will become routine, but the last thing I would want is any academic inst. to become anything less then a totally free and open community.

No, chaining doors closed to contain your victims and moving from room to room summarily executing those who pose NO threat to you is NO accident. You should rethink your position concerning "guns on campus." The VA Tech shooter and his ilk are the ones prevently our schools from being free and open communities. When armed guards stand at the doors herding everyone through metal detectors, the community is suddenly a lot less free and open.

 

[xd9fan]

Whatever we have now is not working. The police response is great.....hell we took take over a small country with the police man and gun power that was displayed at VT. But its a day late and a million dollars short of being effective.

All this money on tech/manpower........all the spin on TV that we need more cameras and police......all which have a social conformity aspect to it (not to mention the lost of individual liberty and self protection)

How about giving the students the dignity of a fighting chance. How about letting law abiding citizens be responsible for their own protection???

If conceal carry works anywhere....it will work everywhere and i mean everywhere...schools planes boats buses macys govt bulidings...etc. no spot on earth will prevent bad guys from being bad.........its just up to the society to decide how much killing they are comfortable with politically by preventing good citizens the means of self protection.

 

[Erebus]

even as a gun owner I do not want them to be on campus

Anyone who thinks that this option truely exists learned nothing from yesterday's carnage. 'Gun Free Zones' are in the same catagory as Santa Claus and The Easter Bunny.

Picture of the gunman on Fox News right now.

 

[RealGun]

Under Tennessee SD law one may use lethal force to protect an
innocent third party from imminent death or bodily harm. The
evidence available to you at the time to make such a determination
had better be convincing to a "reasonable person" (prosecutor and/or
grand jury in the calm and security of a courthouse). - Carl N. Brown

I am aware of such provisions and completely agree with your statements. It's just that as you implied, the law is careful not to sanction a bunch of vigilantes and wannabee cops. One then should go into these situations with a mindset that would make one deliberate rather than a trigger-happy hot dog.

Remember the courthouse shooting in Texas where a CHL holder shot without cover and drew fire from a rifle? To my knowledge he was not directly threatened, he missed, possibly out of range, and he is now a statistic. Would a medal be for bravery or for being a dead hot dog?

I think carrying a gun can make one over confident. It helps to have thought through what one might or should do in various circumstances. I call that training.

 

[Hussygun]

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[whited]

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[Erebus]

I really wish that if Fox News is going to picture guns they would picture the right ones. They are showing Sigs when we already know that the 9mm was a Glock.

Maybe I am just nit-picking cause I'm wearing a Sig.

 

[Erebus]

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[Rumble]

RealGun, you're absolutely right--one should not assume that a gun is a magic talisman, but have training and a plan. And also, indeed, a CCW is as Robert Hairless said in a different thread, for YOUR protection first--any "prophylactic" effect is secondary.

But every so often in these discussions I see something like the idea that a crossfire would ensue, or that you might get killed and do no good, and I think, "but shouldn't you try?" First, I'm not saying that you need to run to the sound of the guns. And I totally agree, you might get killed, like that guy who took on the rifleman at that courthouse. Yes, it is a possibility that a crossfire might ensue. And yes, you might even go to jail for that if it does.

But I couldn't live with myself if I didn't try.

 

[ojibweindian]

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[willbrink]

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[Hussygun]

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[Derek Zeanah]

One more abortion-related post and I close the thread.

This has been a good thread. Let's not destroy it over something stupid.