Foxnews Alert: Gunman on VA Tech campus

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ChicTrib: more on Cho, victims

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...nt.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

Sources: College gunman left note

By Aamer Madhani
Tribune national correspondent

April 17, 2007, 11:39 AM CDT

BLACKSBURG, Va. -- The suspected gunman in the Virginia Tech shooting rampage, Cho Seung-Hui, was a troubled 23-year-old senior from South Korea who investigators believe left an invective-filled note in his dorm room, sources say.

The note included a rambling list of grievances, according to sources. They said Cho also died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms.

Cho had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behavior, according to an investigative source, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women.

A note believed to have been written by Cho was found in his dorm room that railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.

Cho was an English major whose creative writing was so disturbing that he was referred to the school's counseling service, the Associated Press reported.

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said she did not personally know the gunman. But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department's director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as "troubled."

"There was some concern about him," Rude said. "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be. But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

She said Cho was referred to the counseling service, but she said she did not know when, or what the outcome was.

Cho, from Centreville, Va., a rapidly growing suburb of Washington, D.C., came to the United States in 1992, an investigative source said. He was a legal permanent resident.

His family runs a dry cleaning business and he has a sister who graduated from Princeton University, according to the source.

Investigators believe Cho at some point had been taking medication for depression. They are examining Cho's computer for more evidence.

The gunman's family lived in an off-white, two-story town house in Centreville.

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said of the gunman. Shash said the gunman spent a lot of his free time playing basketball, and wouldn't respond if someone greeted him. He described the family as quiet.

Marshall Main, who lives across the street, said the family had lived in the townhouse for several years.

According to court records, Virginia Tech Police issued a speeding ticket to Cho on April 7 for going 44 mph in a 25 mph zone, and he had a court date set for May 23.

Cho was found among the 31 dead found in an engineering hall. Police said the victims laid over four classrooms and a stairwell.

"He was a loner," said Larry Hincker, a university spokesman, who added that investigators are having some difficulty unearthing information about him.

A law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho was carrying a backpack that contained receipts for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol.

Ballistics tests by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms showed that one gun was used in Monday's two separate campus attacks that were two hours apart.

As a permanent legal resident of the United States, Cho was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of any felony criminal charges, a federal immigration official said.

Police said Cho killed 30 people in a Virginia Tech engineering building Monday morning and then killed himself.

Another two students were shot to death two hours earlier in a dorm room on the opposite side of the university's sprawling 2,600-acre campus, bringing the day's death toll to 33.

Students at Harper Hall, the campus dormitory where Cho lived, said they had little interaction with him and no insight into what might have motivated the attack.

Timothy Johnson, a student from Annandale, Va., said people would say hello to Cho in passing, but nobody knew him well.

"People are pretty upset," Johnson said. "He's a monster; he can't be normal. I can't believe I said 'hi' to him in the hall and then he killed all those people."

Officials said the same gun was used in the attack in the dorm room and the larger-scale classroom killings.

"At this time, the evidence does not conclusively identify Cho as the gunman at both locations," said Col. W. Steven Flaherty, superintendent of Virginia State Police.

The new details were revealed as the university readied itself for a day of mourning. A convocation is set for today, which President Bush and First Lady Laura Bush said they would attend, and thousands of students and Blacksburg residents are expected to come together later in the day for a candlelight vigil.

All classes at Virginia Tech will be closed for the remainder of the week, said school President Charles Steger.

Some victims' names released

Among the dead was a professor, Liviu Librescu. Students who were in Librescu's engineering class at Norris Hall told the Tribune late Monday that the professor tried to protect the students in his class when they realized a gunmen was loose in the building.

Alec Calhoun was in Librescu's solid mechanics engineering class when gunfire erupted in the room next door. He said Librescu, went to the door and pushed himself against it in case the shooter tried to come in.

Librescu, an Israeli, was born in Romania and was known internationally for his research in aeronautical engineering.

Also killed were:

# Ross Abdallah Alameddine, 20, of Saugus, Mass., according to his mother, Lynnette Alameddine.

# Ryan Clark, 22, of Martinez, Ga., biology and English major, according to Columbia County Coroner Vernon Collins.

# Daniel Perez Cueva, 21, a native of Peru studying international relations, according to his mother, Betty Cueva.

# Kevin Granata, age unknown, engineering science and mechanics professor, according to Ishwar K. Puri, the head of the engineering science and mechanics department.

# Caitlin Hammaren, 19, of Westtown, N.Y., a sophomore majoring in international studies and French, according to Minisink Valley, N.Y., school officials who spoke with her family.

# Emily Jane Hilscher, a 19-year-old freshman from Woodville, according to Rappahannock County Administrator John W. McCarthy, a family friend.

# G.V. Loganathan, 51, civil and environmental engineering professor, according to his brother G.V. Palanivel.

# Mary Karen Read, 19, of Annandale, Va. according to her aunt, Karen Kuppinger, of Rochester, N.Y.

Fifteen victims, including three who originally were listed in critical condition, were listed in stable or good condition and two remained in critical condition, wire services reported.

The Tribune's Washington bureau and the Associated Press contributed.

Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune
 
I don't know if this has been posted here or not as I have not read the whole thread but CNN is reporting that the serial numbers on both guns were filed off. Further proof that the guns were obtained illegally.
 
Cho had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behavior, according to an investigative source, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women.

Err...if he legally bought the guns, why were they not confiscated when he committed arson??? Im pretty sure that if I set any part of my apartment on fire, I would be without guns. The head of the english department also said they had some "concerns" about Cho....a little late now!:barf:
 
But I couldn't live with myself if I didn't try. - Rumble

You're a good guy, but you should be able to have that sense of honor within a legal environment that supports you, even when things don't go well. Right now, I think it is very much a matter of being guilty until proven innocent, i.e. the legal environment is hostile. If not keeping that in mind, you may get only one chance and then lose the right to carry for life. If that doesn't make you angry, it should. You are not a cop.
 
Why does nothing in that article surprise me? All the familiar buzzwords are there -- troubled, depression, medication, loner, violent, stalking, etc.

Mental illness is usually easy to spot, it's figuring out who is really dangerous and who isn't (and what to do about it) that's difficult. I'd say that VT should have been a little quicker in giving this guy the boot. This guy makes Marcus Vick look like a choirboy. Why was he still in school?
 
One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident, federal officials said. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

Not good.
 
Fox reporting that a bomb threat note was found near the shooter. Could be linked to the previous bomb threats.

They also reported that women were complaining that he was stalking them. Sure looks like warning signs were definately missed.
 
The media has reported that the shooter was "railing" against rich people, debauchery, and charalans on campus.

That indicates an attack on a "way of life, lifestyle, or message." Can anyone tell me why this shouldn't be considered a terrorist attack?


Being a former liberal arts student myself, I find it interesting that he seemed to attack on a class struggle basis. I got a lot of revolutionary messages similar to that in my liberal arts classes. The professors that gave those messages ALWAYS stood behind the 1st Amendment as a shield.

Isn't it possible that the messages he recieved contributed to his beliefs? I don't see anyone discussing this perspective in the news.

Seems the 1st amendment is somehow more sacred than then 2nd.


John
 
More from Hincker

I haven't seen this one posted yet, so here goes:

In an editorial Larry Hincker wrote to the Roanoke Times, on 9/05/06, he said, among other things, "Guns don't belong in classrooms. They never will. Virginia Tech has a very sound policy preventing same."

Although I'm not a VT alum, members of my family are, and I have spent quite a bit of time on campus. I really, really want to be angry at this fool - but right now I'm too sad.
 
ABC News cited unnamed sources as saying Cho returned to his own dorm room after the initial shootings, where he re-armed himself and took the time to write a "disturbing note" before heading to Norris Hall.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266523,00.html

So much for the 'locking down the campus wouldn't have helped anything' theory... He went back to his room, wrote his crazy note and rearmed. In Harper Hall. A whole block over from where the original shootings occurred. I'd imagine the death toll would be lower if he'd been contained in a dorm versus roaming classrooms.
 
Over 100 buildings, 26000 full-time students and 10000 employees and you're going to lock it down in an hour or two? How?

Remember, buildings have more than one entrance and you have to secure them all.
(I wonder if you can still sneak between the buildings in the steam tunnels?)

"We have 38 full-time sworn police officers who are complemented by security guards, campus watch officers and safe ride officers." - VT site

Even if you drag in the Blacksburg police who are on duty and available with an emergency request, what do you have? Hint: If you got them ALL there would only be "74 full-time and 8 part-time"

John
Va Tech Class of '72 and former AJ resident for a year
 
It seems like the international media has been waiting for something like this so they could question our gun laws. Many of the Reuturs, AP, and BBC stories i've seen/heard always throw in a line about "the US reconsidering its gun laws." I think there will be more anti gun pressure coming from Europe than our own media. After all, they're more civilized than us. :rolleyes:
 
Warning signs.

What I find more outrages is that this could have been prevented with strict intervention. All the warning signs where there, but no one wanted to deal with it. Pretty sad that so many people knew he was troubled and we was a threat but failed to act. May they live will the guilt forever. Of course they probably will just blame the guns and not their inaction.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting_150
 
In an editorial Larry Hincker wrote to the Roanoke Times, on 9/05/06, he said, among other things, "Guns don't belong in classrooms. They never will. Virginia Tech has a very sound policy preventing same."

A recurring problem that gets highlighted by the local media here is sexual assault on the UH Manoa campus (it probably happens at the other campus' also but doesn't get the same press). And everytime it happens, there are calls from some of the students for...

...more education.

Yes, education to prevent rapes. This and the above quote just illustrates the naivete of some, but the students have a bit of an excuse. For some, they still live sheltered lives and are clueless. College administrators shouldn't be so naive, but what can you say when they think laws and rules keep you safe. It takes a bunch of people who are armed with the right tools and the proper mindset to keep you safe.

The local media interviewed campus security at UH-Manoa and "found out" that they have no contingencies for such a situation, and being unarmed except for radios - can not handle one either. Story mentioned that they are now considering an armed campus police force. When the memories of VA-Tech begin to fade, look for the complaints to arise from some of the students fearing armed "nazis" strolling the campus.

I guess some people just want to be victims. Or... they want others to be victims so they can feel sorry for them.
 
Over 100 buildings, 26000 full-time students and 10000 employees and you're going to lock it down in an hour or two? How?
You've got RA's. You've got athelete's. You've got people that swing a mean softball bat. You don't need officers to do a lockdown, you need to get people up and make them aware. Andyou don't really need a hard lockdown, you just need a good idea of where he isn't, so you can focus the police on where he is. If you take armed students off the table, one guy who notices the wierd Asian kid dashing out during lockdown and hurrying across the drill field and calls someone, maybe prevents this. The 38 police with 1500 extra sets of eyes maybe prevents this. This guy was a block away from the original shooting for a couple of hours for Chrissake!

I know I'm second guessing, Monday morning quarterbacking, whatever, but what productive action did they do for the two hours and change when this guy went to ground? Even a pourous lockdown of the immediate area probably would've been helpful. Simply advising people to stay indoors cuts down on the number of people you need to look at, and limits his mobility. I'm having a hard time with "since it wouldn't be one hundred percent effective, there was no point" argument. Was what they did better? Would he have killed 50 people if they'd attempted some sort of lock down?
 
Remember, buildings have more than one entrance and you have to secure them all.
They said that you had to have a card to get in the buildings. That means that the card had to be scanned at the door and a computer unlocked the door. Shut the cards off, doors are secure. Have the teachers lock down their classrooms. At least don't make it easy for him to walk right into the rooms.
 
The gun was bought since 36 days

CNN just said the crazy guy bought the pistols legally 36 days ago.
He paid with his credit card.

The guns where a Glock 9 MM and a Walther P22

They say gun laws are going to change intermediately so you cant get a gun so fast. That sucks.
 
So a 40-day waiting period would have prevented this loony from going off the deep end? And if he'd bought them six months ago, would they be advocating a 200-day waiting period?

--Len.
 
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