Friend's Glock 21 - Failure Question

[KarlG]

Went to the range with a friend today. He just got a used (armorer refurbished) Glock 21. It was his the gun's first time out and it is his first gun (although he has shot before). It is the older style frame without fingergrooves, but it had the newer, longer ejector.

He put 200 rounds through it with only one probelm that occurred a handful of times. Each time after the last shot in the magazine, the slide would hold open as it should. He would then reload, insert the new magazine and push the slide release button to chamber a round. The round always chambered, but a few times the trigger did not reset. When this happened, racking the slide always solved the problem.

I could not artificially reproduce the problem. He always used the slide release button so I cannot say if it did this when the slide was pulled back by hand and then released. He had three magazines and I do not know if the failure happened with just one or all of the magazines.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Sven]

Wow - that doesn't sound normal.

The trigger should re-engage just as the slide returns to battery.

You can test this without firing... remove the mag and check that the gun is unloaded by pulling the slide back and inspecting the chamber. Cock the trigger and dry fire, pointing in a safe direction. Put the empty mag in and lock the slide open by pulling the slide all the way to the rear and then releasing.

Now pull the slide back (instead of releasing it with the lever) and slowly return the slide to its normal position. Observe the trigger as you do this... when the slide is within 1/3" of being back in battery, the trigger should begin resetting.

Please report what you find.

 

[Blueduck]

Sounds like a broken trigger spring. $2, 2minute fix. Glockmeister gives instructions on thier webpage. Can also order the spring there.

NY spring with 3.5# connector is in theory less likely to break and gives about the same pull (my favorite setup BTW).

 

[KarlG]

Sven,
Did what you suggested while at the range earlier. This is how I tried to "artificially reproduce the problem". I could not make the failure happen. I will have my frind try it several times with each magazine and see if he can make it happen at home.

Blueduck,
I will pass this information on to my friend. He purchased the gun from a well respected establishment in town that does a lot of LE business. The gun he bought was a LE turn-in. The sales person said that she and many others at the shop are Glock certified armorers and that they go through the guns thoroughly. They may be willing to just put a new spring in for him.

Thanks, any other ideas?

 

[Blueduck]

Other than being totally gunked up or a bent trigger bar somehow, just can't imagine anything else other than the trigger spring. You take a Glock's firing system down you'll see what I mean. Trigger on one end, bar in the middle, spring attached to the end. Not much to go wrong

You might be wondering why if the spring was broken why would it only fail occasionally? What happens is that even though the spring itself is broken the impact of the slide closing is of enough force the it mechanically resets the trigger. Some schools actually teach people to push the trigger forward and fire the rest of the magazine as failure drill.

Glock has it's issues, but being simple and normally very easily repaired even at home by ham fisted not mechanically minded people such as myself is not one of them

 

[KarlG]

Blueduck,
The trigger did not reset until the slide moved forward under any circumstance. I do not own a Glock and have not taken one down past field cleaning. It looked to me like there was a little bar sticking up right below the extractor that the slide hit and reset the trigger. Should the trigger spring be doing this job? Should the trigger reset even if the slide stays back? (I am thinking you will say yes to both).

Thanks,

 

[Blueduck]

The trigger does not reset until the slide starts forward, the piece your seeing is part of the trigger bar I mentioned.

Let me think of a way to explain this The bar does not really mechanically reset the trigger due to the slide running over it. Thats why you can close the glocks action with the trigger pulled back (should you want to). But that bar is connected to a spring that provides the force to reset the trigger.

Figure seven of this link:http://glockmeister.com/trigger.shtml has a pretty good picture of the trigger bar and the part your seeing.

And this link: http://glockmeister.com/trigspr.shtml shows you the spring I'm refering to. Your friend most likely has the standard spring (top photo).

Hope it's clear as mud now Be sure to let us know what they say. But I'm still betting trigger spring Another clue to this to me is that the gun was recently refurbished. About any refurbishg job would include a new trigger spring, and if a springs gonna break due to a manufacturing fault it's likely gonna do so pretty quickly.

 

[Handy]

On one occasion, when two friends were shooting my G19, it did what you describe 3 times. I could not duplicate it and I still have no idea what happened. It was so off the wall that I haven't really thought about it since.

Recently, I put in a NY trigger spring. I couldn't say that this will prevent that problem, but it does guard against trigger sping breakage, which I've seen too many of.

 

[Nero Steptoe]

With the pistol empty, you can reset the trigger by moving the slide back only about 1/2". I have experienced failure to reset problems when using Alchemy Arms connectors. Somebody might have replaced/modified the connector. If it's not the trigger spring, check the connnector out.

 

[cratz2]

If there is a Glock Armorer anywhere near you guys (and there probably is) he should be able to check the spring, replace it if neccessary and tell your friend the virtues of the Ghost Rocket. It also allows for a positive and short trigger reset more like that of a 1911. It also adds an over travel stop.

http://ghostinc.zoovy.com/category/35_rocket/

 

[BretS]

Reply to Sven

Wow - that doesn't sound normal.

Sven,

I tried what you suggested and was unable to replicate the event. I think I will do as suggested and take it to the Glock Armorer near me where I purchased the gun. I think they should be able to replace any parts that could be causing this without hestitation. After all I just purchased it last week from her.

Thanks for the response, I will let you know what they did or said.

Still a fun gun though!

 

[M1key]

NEVER use the slide stop to load the weapon, because you may indeed get a failure to fire (light hit). I have had this happen before myself. You are essentially short-stroking the slide action. Always use the sling-shot or over hand method to charge the weapon by pulling ALL THE WAY BACK and letting go--smartly.

 

[R&J]

My G21's Been Flawless...

10,000 + Rounds .45 ACP

2,000 + Rounds 10 mm

Aside from some out-of-spec CCI Blazer Ammo--100% reliable in .45 ACP!

Caliber Conversion: Aside from square-nosed, naked lead bullets not feeding well, the rig is currently 95% reliability in 10 mm mode! It will be 100% reliable in 10 mm, when I fire 1000/1000 rounds without a hiccup!

--Ray