FTF Transfers in Regards to Residency

[Killermonkey21]

Hello everyone.

I'm fairly new to this site, so please excuse me if this has been discussed at length. I couldn't find any topics that dealt with this exclusively.

I am a 19 y/o Active Duty Army currently serving in Iraq and would like to spend some of my deployment savings on starting my firearms collection.

This question deals mostly with handguns, but with rifles and the like as well.

Q: I claim residency, for tax purposes, in Washington State, but actually "reside" at my duty station, Fort Bragg NC. Can I buy firearms in NC when I get back as I have "lived" in North Carolina for 8 month's (before deployment) and will continue to live there for at least 6 more months after I return from deployment, then I will be stationed at Ft Lewis WA in all likelyhood. Are there any pitfalls to purchasing in a state where I do not have residency?

And if there are any tips or tricks to the trade about this I would greatly appreciate it. I have several coworkers that are interested in selling handguns to me, considering how you (most likely) have little to no restrictions on our 2A rights from felonies etc considering we are active duty. I know its required to get a "Permit" to buy a handgun in NC and will continue to research laws in that regard, but with the multiple state thing...its kind of confusing.

I appreciate any and all help you can provide. I am really starting to enjoy this site for its information and like minded people. Have a good weekend.

-PFC John V.

 

[mekender]

so long as you have orders that put you in NC and can provide a copy of them to the dealer, there shouldn't be any problems... you will need a permit to purchase handguns, which you can apply for at the sheriffs office... other than that, you shouldn't have any problems...

once you get back to the states, send me a PM and ill get ya in touch with fellow NC residents that will be glad to make your acquaintance...

and thank you for your service...

 

[Killermonkey21]

Ok. So basically, I can purchase firearms in Washington state OR NC on my return? As I have legal residency in WA and am stationed in NC?

Makes sense. And I appreciate the offer. I will hopefully be able to take you up on that offer sooner rather than later.

-PFC John V.

 

[Dodgeit]

Not to ran on your parade, but Handguns require a purchaser to be 21 if I'm not mistaken.

 

[elrod]

Here are your NC rules:

http://www.chathamsheriff.com/firearms_law.htm

Hope that helps. Thank you for your service.

 

[OMGWTFBBQ]

The state in which you reside, for purposes of federal law, is the state where you are stationed, so there's no problem there.

(b) For the purposes of this chapter, a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located.

(a) It shall be unlawful—...
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

 

[NavyLCDR]

Here we go.

First, you are not afforded any additional rights or privilidges because you are active duty, with one exception. If you are issued a weapon by the military, for military duties, you may carry that weapon however it is prescribed by the military, concealed or not, while on duty that requires possession of that weapon. Otherwise, you are just ordinary citizen subject to the same rules and regulations.

You can purchase handguns and longguns in Washington State or North Carolina, either with your Washington State driver's license in Washington, or with a combination of your Washington State driver's license, military ID card and orders to NC in North Carolina.

In NC, you must obtain a permit for each weapon purchased from the sheriff's office. Either for a handgun or for a long gun. One weapon per permit whether purchased from an individual or a dealer. I did not see any age requirements on the permit, so I think at 19 you are fine with either a handgun or a longgun.

Federal law prohibits you from purchasing a hand gun from an FFL dealer period, anywhere. However, in Washington State, and I believe in NC, but I am not sure, it is not prohibited for you to purchase a handgun from a private individual. and of course you can't be felon, under a court protective order or convicted of domestic violence. Handguns may only be purchased in one's state of residence, and either from a dealer or from a private party also a resident of that same state. Of course, you can't buy yours from a dealer.

Longguns can be purchased in any state, from an FFL dealer, so long as you would be legal to purchase the longgun in your state of residence (which I would use Washington, it's a lot easier) and the state in which the longgun is being sold and so long as the purchase occurs at the place of business of the FFL and in person. If you want to buy out of state like that, the FFL you are buying from should be able to take care of all that and should know if they can legally sell to you or not.

 

[mekender]

ohhh yeah, you are going to play hell trying to get a purchase permit while under 21 in NC... i missed that one...

In NC, you must obtain a permit for each weapon purchased from the sheriff's office. Either for a handgun or for a long gun. One weapon per permit whether purchased from an individual or a dealer. I did not see any age requirements on the permit, so I think at 19 you are fine with either a handgun or a longgun.

permits are only required for pistols... there are 3 valid ways to acquire a handgun when under 21, inheritance, gifts or private purchase... unfortunately, i have never been able to find any case law or information about how to get a permit if you are under 21... suffice it to say that you probably wont get one

 

[Hkmp5sd]

You can purchase handguns and longguns in Washington State or North Carolina, either with your Washington State driver's license in Washington, or with a combination of your Washington State driver's license, military ID card and orders to NC in North Carolina.

Even though he has a Washington State driver's license, he cannot buy handguns there. As mentioned above, his state of residence is the state in which he is stationed. Federal law allows buying long guns from an FFL in any state, but handguns can only be purchased in the state of residence and for him, that is NC.

 

[Killermonkey21]

I did some quick searches in regards to needing to be 21 in order to buy a handgun purchase permit, and I found conflicting reports. I'm going to e-mail the sheriffs office and explain myself. I can imagine I'm not the first person to ask this question, and the sheriffs office is going to be the one making the decision of if I am "of good moral character" to purchase a handgun.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Even though he has a Washington State driver's license, he cannot buy handguns there. As mentioned above, his state of residence is the state in which he is stationed. Federal law allows buying long guns from an FFL in any state, but handguns can only be purchased in the state of residence and for him, that is NC.

Ooops. You are right, for the most part. If a military member maintains a home in a state other than the state they are ordered to, and they reside in that home for at least part of the time, we can claim both states of residence depending on where we are actually residing at the time. Let's say I have a home in Wyoming and I left my wife there and and I return there whenever I can, then I would have two states of residence.

But, you are right for buying handguns, just a driver's license isn't enough, a home must be maintained there as well, my mistake! Glad we got that cleared up.

And it was also my mistake - the permit is only required for pistols and crossbows. Dang, what was I thinking!

 

[Winchester 73]

And it was also my mistake - the permit is only required for pistols and crossbows. Dang, what was I thinking!

You are only human.You're allowed to make a mistake.
You give out fine info on this forum thats informing a lot of members on firearms laws.
Keep up the good work.

 

[DMF]

If a military member maintains a home in a state other than the state they are ordered to, and they reside in that home for at least part of the time, we can claim both states of residence depending on where we are actually residing at the time. Let's say I have a home in Wyoming and I left my wife there and and I return there whenever I can, then I would have two states of residence.

That is not correct.

Here are the facts regarding residency and purchasing firearms:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b11

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b12 (visiting the wife over a long weekend is not actually residing in that state.)

 

[wdlsguy]

Here is the definition of "state of residence" from the federal regulations:

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a
period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. ...

27 CFR 478.11

 

[NavyLCDR]

This is from 27CFR478.11

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a
home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer
months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months
of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a
resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in
State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Heres the link:
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/26mar20071500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/aprqtr/27cfr478.11.htm

If I maintain a home in Wyoming, my wife lives there, and I return there for a weekend, I am now residing in Wyoming for that weekend, and it is legal for me to purchase a handgun in Wyoming. Directly out of the Code of Federal Regulations that the BATF FAQ references.

DMF and wdlsguy, it might help to read the entire CFR and not just the first part or the BATF FAQ.

 

[DMF]

The CFR does NOT state that a weekend visit is actually residing in state "Y."

However, as I've often advised before, if this is more than a hypothetical I suggest you consult with an attorney who is competent in local, state, and federal firearms laws.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It says right in the CFR "WEEKENDS".

 

[wdlsguy]

It does say weekends. Not weekend. I believe this example is given to cover someone who typically spends Monday through Friday in one state (Illinois, perhaps) and Saturday and Sunday in another state (Wisconsin, perhaps). Not someone who typically spends 363 days a year in Illinois and a couple of days a year in Wisconsin.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Yes, but in the specific example I gave, a service member might leave his family in his home state, we'll say Wisconsin. They own or rent a home in Wisconsin. As a husband/wife they pay all bills in Wisconsin jointly, rent and utilities. They file a joint tax return with the Wisconsin address. For all intents, purposes and legality, the military member has a residence established in Wisconsin and anytime the active duty member returns to Wisconsin, they would be allowed and legal to purchase there.

Now, if the military member owns a house in Wisconsin. And they rent it out. And the member's family moves with them to wherever. When the member returns to Wisconsin for a weekend to check on his property, then NO, they cannot legally purchase firearms in Wisconsin because they merely own property in Wisconsin and have a Wisconsin driver's license, because they are not actually maintaining a physical place of residence.

 

[DMF]

As I've often advised before, if this is more than a hypothetical I suggest you consult with an attorney who is competent in local, state, and federal firearms laws.

 

[ForeignDude]

This "Residence" Issue for Active-Duty Military...

...is not very clear-cut in the applicable federal regulations.

I have known individuals, on active duty, who have successfully purchased handguns in the state: (1) they claim as their "legal" residence in their military records; (2) for which they have a valid driver's license.

Now, here is a hypothetical that has me scratching my noodle:

(a) Let's say that you are permanently stationed in Washington, DC;
(b) Let us also say that you commute in from Virginia, where you rent a home;
(c) Finally, you claim Florida as your "state of legal residence" while in the service, you keep your FL Driver's License, but you do not maintain a home there (your brother owns a home in FL and you put his house down as your permanent address).

The regulations indicate thus:

"A member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in
which his or her permanent duty station
is located. If a member of the
Armed Forces maintains a home in
one State and the member’s permanent
duty station is in a nearby State
to which he or she commutes each
day, then the member has two States
of residence and may purchase a
firearm in either the State where the
duty station is located or the State
where the home is maintained."
(18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and
922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11, via
ATF publication]

So here's where it gets interesting.

The servicemember can't buy handguns in Washington, DC, where they are permanently stationed -- handguns are not legal and even if handguns were legal, there are no FFL dealers in the area.

The servicemember also can't buy a handgun in Virginia, where s/he maintains a home, because his/her official orders do not specify a permanent duty station in Virginia.

The only solution that I've come up with is to give up legal residence in Florida and change it officially to Virginia, which would allow the servicemember to obtain valid proof of residence (VA Driver's License) for purposes of acquiring a handgun. In turn, that means that that servicemember would now be liable for Virginia state, county, and local taxes -- just like any other resident of the state.

Am I missing something here? What say you?

 

[EOD Guy]

This "Residence" Issue for Active-Duty Military...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...is not very clear-cut in the applicable federal regulations.

I have known individuals, on active duty, who have successfully purchased handguns in the state: (1) they claim as their "legal" residence in their military records; (2) for which they have a valid driver's license.

Now, here is a hypothetical that has me scratching my noodle:

(a) Let's say that you are permanently stationed in Washington, DC;
(b) Let us also say that you commute in from Virginia, where you rent a home;
(c) Finally, you claim Florida as your "state of legal residence" while in the service, you keep your FL Driver's License, but you do not maintain a home there (your brother owns a home in FL and you put his house down as your permanent address).

The regulations indicate thus:

"A member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in
which his or her permanent duty station
is located. If a member of the
Armed Forces maintains a home in
one State and the member’s permanent
duty station is in a nearby State
to which he or she commutes each
day, then the member has two States
of residence and may purchase a
firearm in either the State where the
duty station is located or the State
where the home is maintained."
(18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and
922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11, via
ATF publication]

So here's where it gets interesting.

The servicemember can't buy handguns in Washington, DC, where they are permanently stationed -- handguns are not legal and even if handguns were legal, there are no FFL dealers in the area.

The servicemember also can't buy a handgun in Virginia, where s/he maintains a home, because his/her official orders do not specify a permanent duty station in Virginia.

The only solution that I've come up with is to give up legal residence in Florida and change it officially to Virginia, which would allow the servicemember to obtain valid proof of residence (VA Driver's License) for purposes of acquiring a handgun. In turn, that means that that servicemember would now be liable for Virginia state, county, and local taxes -- just like any other resident of the state.

A service member stationed in one state (or DC) who commutes daily from an adjacent state can purchase in either area. See page 2 of the attached FFL newsletter for the BATF ruling on the matter. Also, if the post at which a military member is stationed extends into more than 1 state, he may purchase in either state.

FFL Newsletter

 

[NavyLCDR]

Yes, it does seem like you are missing something here. It's right in your post.

"If a member of the
Armed Forces maintains a home in
one State and the member’s permanent
duty station is in a nearby State
to which he or she commutes each
day, then the member has two States
of residence and may purchase a
firearm in either the State where the
duty station is located or the State
where the home is maintained."

I would think all that would be required to purchase the gun in Virginia would be the orders to DC, the military ID card, and something that would prove residence in Virginia such as a lease or utility bills. I am sure the FFL's in Virginia are well aware of the situation! Also, a copy of the CFR to show the FFL and if there are any doubts ask them to call the ATF for clarification.

 

[rklessdriver]

I just left USMC AD last year. I am a NC resident and have a NC D/L but was stationed in VA.

To buy a handgun in VA all I had to do was submitt a copy of my orders, my Military ID card and NC D/L for the FFL to do the insta-check. I bought a few handguns that way up here over the past 3yrs.

I don't know about what would have happen if I were to apply for a NC permit. I still own/owned property in NC and do/did reside there a couple of moths out of the year. However according to my interetation of 18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11, it would have been legal for me to do so.

Being stationed in DC is whole different ball game... at least until the Heller descison is released. Not sure what the FFL would do currently if your orders said DC but you lived in VA and communted to work. Probally ask for a utility bill just to cover his 6.
Will

 

[DMF]

I have known individuals, on active duty, who have successfully purchased handguns in the state: (1) they claim as their "legal" residence in their military records; (2) for which they have a valid driver's license.

As I've said before there is a HUGE difference between what is actually legal, and what people sometimes get away with.

The law is clear, AD military members are residents of the state where they are stationed for the purposes of buying firearms. There is the "commuting" exception, but that too is very specific and clearly defined.

Again, as I've advised before, if this is more than a hypothetical I suggest you consult with a competent attorney with experience in the relevant local, state, and federal firearms laws.