Getting a gifted gun home from out if state

[BigBL87]

Hey all, have a question about a somewhat odd situation. I'm in Nebraska visiting family, and after finding out I don't own a revolver, my uncle decided to give me my grandpa's old Taurus 357 revolver. Obviously means alot to me, and I'm incredibly appreciative. However, I'm not positive on the proper procedure for getting it home.

My thinking is, I need to call my FFL back home in Illinois, and ship it to them via UPS Next Day Air or whichever service UPS specifies you have to use. Is that correct? I'm going to pay for all the shipping costs, but I'm assuming I list him as the sender even though I'll probably be the one to drop it off at their customer center.

 

[dogtown tom]

Hey all, have a question about a somewhat odd situation. I'm in Nebraska visiting family, and after finding out I don't own a revolver, my uncle decided to give me my grandpa's old Taurus 357 revolver. Obviously means alot to me, and I'm incredibly appreciative. However, I'm not positive on the proper procedure for getting it home.

My thinking is, I need to call my FFL back home in Illinois, and ship it to them via UPS Next Day Air or whichever service UPS specifies you have to use. Is that correct? I'm going to pay for all the shipping costs, but I'm assuming I list him as the sender even though I'll probably be the one to drop it off at their customer center.

Do not take possession! (even to just drop it off at UPS)
That's a Federal crime for you, and a Federal crime for your uncle.

Your uncle can take it to UPS, but it must be a Customer Service Center. Not a UPS Store or other third party retailer.
Or
He could take it to any FedEx Office location. All of those are company owned.
Or
Take the handgun to a local dealer who can ship it via USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate box for less than half the cost of FedEx/UPS.

 

[BigBL87]

Wow, thanks. Didn't realize that about taking possession to drop it off. Looks like I'll do the complex shipping work and just leave it to him do drop it off.

 

[DoubleMag]

You will quickly find your FFL will not receive it from a private out of state non-FFL person. Handguns and their own special laws, dontcha luv 'em.
I think its more appropriate to him to take it to an FFL, and ship it to your FFL back home.

 

[Telekinesis]

You will quickly find your FFL will not receive it from a private out of state non-FFL person.

Some will and some won't, but I would bet that being IL most FFLs will require a gun to come from another dealer. It's not a handgun specific thing, just a dealer policy that usually relates to all firearms.

OP: like Dogtown Tom said, have your uncle physically hand off the firearm. You can make calls and set up shipping and such, but he needs to be the one in possession of the firearm.

 

[BigBL87]

IIRC, my FFL will accept transfers from out of state individuals, at least the last time I asked. When I bought my CZ-75 I initially was going to buy from an individual before the deal fell through and had to ask them.

 

[J-Bar]

Good advice above, and how wonderful to have an uncle that wants to share his guns with you.

The situation may change with inherited guns. With Illinois laws being what they are, maybe not, but many states allow transportation of inherited firearms without going through an FFL. Google brings up a number of articles when searching "inherited firearm transportation", like this one:


https://johnpierceesq.com/what-to-do-if-you-inherit-firearms-located-in-another-state/

I'm not suggesting waiting for your uncle to pass away; just for future and general information. I am not a lawyer. I'm sure additional clarifications will follow.

 

[Tirod]

And I thought this was going to be a "how do I fly home with this gun" Thread.

For the benefit of those who think otherwise, why can't the OP simply take possession and return home? Looking at this from the perspective that it's a gift from a family member.

I understand that living in IL has it's legal angles.

 

[CoalTrain49]

And I thought this was going to be a "how do I fly home with this gun" Thread.

For the benefit of those who think otherwise, why can't the OP simply take possession and return home? Looking at this from the perspective that it's a gift from a family member.

I understand that living in IL has it's legal angles.

Here is the ATF requirement.

Transferring/Shipping/Possession of Firearms: 4. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to an individual who resides in a different State? What if the individual resides within the same State? Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov and http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exception from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. For example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under a will or by State law upon death of the owner. See 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(5)(A).

 

[Bad Ninja]

The easiest way seems to be FFL to FFL.
If the gun is a gift, the FFL fees seem like a small price to pay for legal peace of mind.

 

[CoalTrain49]

The easiest way seems to be FFL to FFL.
If the gun is a gift, the FFL fees seem like a small price to pay for legal peace of mind.

Probably the easiest and for sure covers all the bases.

I believe the ATF rule is that the person who is taking possession be a resident of the state where the FFL transfer is taking place.

An unlicensed person who is not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms may purchase a firearm from an out–of–State source, provided the transfer takes place through a Federal firearms licensee in his or her State of residence.

[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3); 27 CFR 478.29]

 

[Captcurt]

Probably the easiest and for sure covers all the bases.

I believe the ATF rule is that the person who is taking possession be a resident of the state where the FFL transfer is taking place.

Yes, on a handgun. I believe that it does not apply to a long gun if the the state is adjacent to the state of residence. I can legally sell a long gun to someone in Missouri, but a handgun must be sold here in Arkansas. It may vary with the Socialist states like NY, IL, or CA.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Yes, on a handgun. I believe that it does not apply to a long gun if the the state is adjacent to the state of residence. I can legally sell a long gun to someone in Missouri, but a handgun must be sold here in Arkansas. It may vary with the Socialist states like NY, IL, or CA.

In CA, all firearm transfers must go through an FFL.

 

[dogtown tom]

...For the benefit of those who think otherwise, why can't the OP simply take possession and return home? Looking at this from the perspective that it's a gift from a family member....

Because that is a Federal crime.
Nonlicensees can only acquire rifles or shotguns when outside their state of residence, and then only when transferred to them by a licensed dealer.
There is no exemption of gifts from family members in any Federal law.

 

[dogtown tom]

Or you could have been smart about it and just quietly taken it home. While this is illegal I feel it's not Big Brother's Business.

So you think it's cool to advise the OP to violate Federal law?
That most definitely IS NOT "SMART" and you should stop posting until you wise up.

 

[dogtown tom]

Probably the easiest and for sure covers all the bases.

I believe the ATF rule is that the person who is taking possession be a resident of the state where the FFL transfer is taking place.

Nope.
Federal law/ATF regulations allow a nonlicensee to acquire rifles or shotguns from a dealer in any state, provided the firearm is legal to possess in the buyers state of residence.

 

[dogtown tom]

Yes, on a handgun. I believe that it does not apply to a long gun if the the state is adjacent to the state of residence. I can legally sell a long gun to someone in Missouri, but a handgun must be sold here in Arkansas. It may vary with the Socialist states like NY, IL, or CA.

The contiguous state restriction disappeared in 1986............THIRTY ODD YEARS AGO!

 

[dogtown tom]

In CA, all firearm transfers must go through an FFL.

This is correct.
A California resident cannot acquire any firearm except through a California dealer.

 

[stonecutter2]

Or you could have been smart about it and just quietly taken it home. While this is illegal I feel it's not Big Brother's Business.

This could result in problems that are nowhere near worth the amount it takes to transfer from one FFL to another. Not recommended.

What "Big Brother Business" exactly are you referring to? The FFL's documentation to each other?

 

[dogtown tom]

TO ANYONE CHIMING IN WITH "LEGAL" ADVICE...............

Please do five minutes of research before making a post. There really aren't that many ATF regulations, but you have to read them to know what you are talking about.
Heck, reading JUST THE INSTRUCTIONS on the Form 4473 gives a dealer and customer pretty much everything they really need to know.

While you may think it an innocent mistake, an innocent mistake can easily cause another forum member to commit a violation of Federal law. That means they might never be able to possess a firearm again.

If you are a member with a hundreds of posts you sure as heck ought to know something about Federal firearms law. At the very least you should have read the ATF FAQ's.

Start here with the easy stuff:
ATF FAQ's https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/firearms-qas
Form 4473 Instructions https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
Both of those will give you a basic understanding of Federal firearms law.

The detailed stuff:
ATF Regulations on Commerce in Firearms: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title27/27cfr478_main_02.tpl
Sometimes ATF will make a "Ruling" to clarify a particular regulation: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/firearms-rulings
Sometimes ATF just likes to write letter to remind FFL's of what the regulations require: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/firearms-open-letters

Want to know why violating those regulations is a Federal crime?
See Title 18 Chapter 44 Firearms https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/pdf/USCODE-2011-title18-partI-chap44.pdf

 

[CoalTrain49]

Nope.
Federal law/ATF regulations allow a nonlicensee to acquire rifles or shotguns from a dealer in any state, provided the firearm is legal to possess in the buyers state of residence.

Where did I say they couldn't? I said....

I believe the ATF rule is that the person who is taking possession be a resident of the state where the FFL transfer is taking place.

That would mean that if he is taking possession in IL (filling out 4473 there) he would have to be a resident of IL. If his uncle goes to a FFL in NE obviously BigBL won't be taking possession of the firearm there, he can't. The FFL would take possession of the firearm there.

Try being a little less sanctimonious. Not everyone on this forum is as stupid as you think. I doubt anyone in this thread wants to run afoul of the ATF.

 

[dogtown tom]

Where did I say they couldn't? I said....

Well......."I believe the ATF rule is that the person who is taking possession be a resident of the state where the FFL transfer is taking place." simply isn't true. Rifles and shotguns CLEARLY may be acquired from a licensed dealer outside the buyer/transferees state of residence as long as the transfer complies with the buyers state law.

That would mean that if he is taking possession in IL (filling out 4473 there) he would have to be a resident of IL. If his uncle goes to a FFL in NE obviously BigBL won't be taking possession of the firearm there, he can't. The FFL would take possession of the firearm there.

Drop the term "firearm" and insert firearm other than a rifle or shotgun and you would be correct.

Try being a little less sanctimonious. Not everyone on this forum is as stupid as you think. I doubt anyone in this thread wants to run afoul of the ATF.

I'm not being sanctimonious. I'm also not going to stand by silent while forum members give advice that could cause another member to commit a Federal crime.

I'll never call another member stupid for being ignorant of a law. What's stupid is giving advice when you know you don't have a clue as to what the law is. Heck, in the last five years this same thread has appeared dozens of times with the exact same references to ATF regs & Federal law. By now the older members should know better.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Well......."I believe the ATF rule is that the person who is taking possession be a resident of the state where the FFL transfer is taking place." simply isn't true. Rifles and shotguns CLEARLY may be acquired from a licensed dealer outside the buyer/transferees state of residence as long as the transfer complies with the buyers state law.

But that wasn't the OP's situation. I was referring to the OP's situation. This was a private transaction between two individuals, Not an over the counter dealer sale and it was a revolver in question.

Generally, a person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State. Exceptions include the acquisition pursuant to a lawful bequest, or an over–the–counter acquisition of a rifle or shotgun from a licensee where the transaction is allowed by the purchaser’s State of residence and the licensee’s State of business. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3); 27 CFR 478.29]

Drop the term "firearm" and insert firearm other than a rifle or shotgun and you would be correct.

Even if it were a rifle or shotgun he still has to be a resident of IL. He needs a FOID card and in order to get one of those he has to be a resident. In place of a FOID he could have a carry permit but residency is also required for that. U.S.C. specifically refers to state of residence in this situation

I'm not disputing your claim as I'm sure what you say is possible in some states. Just saying in this particular situation it looks like he needs to be a resident or he isn't getting that revolver through FFL in IL.

Not trying to be contrary, just pointing out the state requirements.

 

[Frank Ettin]

First, a bunch of posts discussing firearms which are bequeathed by a will (or which pass by intestate succession) have been deleted. That can be a complicated subject for a variety of reasons and had nothing to do with the OP's situation. Let's not muddy the waters.

Hey all, have a question about a somewhat odd situation. I'm in Nebraska visiting family, and after finding out I don't own a revolver, my uncle decided to give me my grandpa's old Taurus 357 revolver. Obviously means alot to me, and I'm incredibly appreciative. However, I'm not positive on the proper procedure for getting it home.

My thinking is, I need to call my FFL back home in Illinois, and ship it to them via UPS Next Day Air or whichever service UPS specifies you have to use. Is that correct? ....

The OP has gotten the correct answer from a number of members. Basically the handgun must be shipped to an FFL in the OP's State of residence for transfer to the OP. That's a requirement of federal law.

Federal law on interstate firearms transfers has been in effect for almost 50 years. It was enacted by the Gun Control Act of 1968.

1. Under federal law, any transfer of a gun (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. And a handgun must be transferred through an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.). There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.
   
   
2. In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.
   
   
3. In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.C] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.
   
   
4. There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.
   
   
5. The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).
   
   
6. Here's what the statutes say:
   

   18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts
   
   (a) It shall be unlawful—
   ...
   
   (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph
   
   
   

   (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,
   
   (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and
   
   (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;​

   
   ...
   
   (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
   
   
   

   (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
   
   (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

   
   ....
   
   (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
   ...
   
   (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph
   
   
   

   (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and
   
   (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

   ...

Note that violations of federal law regarding interstate transfers are punishable by up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine; and since the crime is a felony one will lose his gun rights for the rest of his life.​

 

[Spats McGee]

Yes, on a handgun. I believe that it does not apply to a long gun if the the state is adjacent to the state of residence. I can legally sell a long gun to someone in Missouri, but a handgun must be sold here in Arkansas. It may vary with the Socialist states like NY, IL, or CA.

I believe someone has already mentioned this, but the contiguous state rule is long since gone. As the law stands today, any transfer across state lines, except by bequest or inheritance (and under particular conditions), has to go through an FFL. As between handguns and long guns, the only question is really where the FFL should be located.