getting serious

[walking arsenal]

Ok, HD shotgun questions.

i did a search on this before i posted, but still have some unanswered questions.

1. opinions on the mossberg 500?

2. i have a browning bps im thinking of using as a hd shotty but i need to know a few things about it first.

1. it has a 26 in barrel (i think) pros and cons for CQB use.

2. it will probably digest a lot of buck shot, anyone know how it performs out of a bps?, whats a good buckshot load?, choke for 00 buck?

3. leaving it loaded for extended periods?

4. finally id like some training recomendations, whats a good way to train on a shot gun?

Im a handgunner so i know next to nothing about shotty and even less about rifles, ive only used the latter for hunting till now.

 

[sm]

May I suggest you buy Brister's Book, many questions in the last 6 months asked here are in the book.

I also refer you to just one real life case in this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=1077521#post1077521
Pay Particular Attention to VaughnT's comments. Excellent comments!!

There has always been , still are, most likelywill continue to be more bone stock shotguns, with fully loaded mags and empty chambers ( Cruiser Ready) protecting homes, farms and businesses.

Fact: It matters not what is written on a bbl, on a choke tube, on a box of shells or anything one reads, be it on-line or hard copy. The ONLY sure way to know what YOUR guns does with ANY load is to shoot that load for patterns using pellets, or groups using slugs. At such distance the task is intended, be it hunting, clay games or serious situations.

Better is the person that HAS patterened /grouped his BONE STOCK gun and does 25 mounting and dry fire drills Correctly each day than the fellow that has modified and bolted on stuff and never shoots.

Even better is the fellow that continues to BA/UU/R and does the above.

Combine the two and that firearm is an extension of oneself. The controls are not fumbled, focus on target and threat, and shoot the darn thing.

Proper gun fit, proper technique alleviates much of the recoil and discomfort of shooting.

Is a shorter bbl handy in tight places - sure. Learning the proper techinques with a longer bbl will prevent one from stopping the swing, being jerky. Once ingrained through repetition this is easy to tranfer to a shorter bbl.

FWIW
Next to me is a bone stock 870 Express, 28" bbl with a modified choke tube.
As the man says - "If I can see it - I can fell it. "

 

[lbmii]

I created a thread called "Buckshot Pattern Photos" that you might find helpfull.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83909

If you try out some buckshot with different screw in chokes please photograph the results and post to the thread. I think a lot of people would find it interesting.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

mossberg 500s are decent guns. they do need some easy parts replacement as they come from the factory (metal safety button).

you might be better off with a shortbarrelled 500 than with the longbarrelled BPS.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Darn near any reliable shotgun is a good defense shotgun in trained hands. Those last three words are the important part.

I'm an 870 fan to the bone, but if my arms to hand consisted of another Big Four pump or the Nova, I'd still be abso-freaking-lutely deadly.

Get what you like. Run 200 rounds of duty ammo through it without a glitch. Train and practice frequently. You're ready....

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

don't forget to get some decent training. there are several reputable shotgun trainers around. BA/UU/R is nice, but can reenforce bad habits if you do not have good ones to start with.

 

[Fred Fuller]

1. opinions on the mossberg 500?
They're good guns, I too prefer the 870 but I have a couple of 500s also. If you do your part, it will hold up the other end, I assure you. It is more important to fix "the nut that holds the stock" (the shooter, that is) most of the time... . Training and experience are the answer there.


2. i have a browning bps im thinking of using as a hd shotty but i need to know a few things about it first.

1. it has a 26 in barrel (i think) pros and cons for CQB use.
Shorter barrels are more handy in enclosed spaces. But your BPS is serviceable as is, if it's all you have.

Respectfully, you should not be thinking in terms of CQB- alone and untrained, you have no business charging around the house with the possibility of there being someone armed and hostile waiting for you to find them. That is a great way to get really, really dead, really quickly. Try clearing your house alone sometimes with a friend playing bad guy, using toy dart guns and eye protection, if you don't believe me.

If you are thinking about, say, placing some strategic remote control (Radio Shack has it, it's called X10) or low wattage lighting down the hall outside the bedroom door, you're doing much better. And if you plan to employ the bed as a bunker to hide behind, and a rest to place the shotgun across, then you are almost unassailable. If you have a phone on the bedside table (a cell phone works best, burglars often rip out landlines before breaking in, even a cell phone with no active service plan can call 911) so you can call 911 while you are employing the cover and concealment your bed (or other furniture or architectural feature) gives you, you have pretty well covered all the angles. That is, if you have it worked out so the rest of the family is protected as well... .

2. it will probably digest a lot of buck shot, anyone know how it performs out of a bps?, whats a good buckshot load?, choke for 00 buck?
Pretty much every shotgun barrel is a rule unto itself as far as patterning is concerned. Experimenting is the only way to find out. At across-the-room distances, it isn't likely to make much difference what you shoot- you are going to get ragged holes, not patterns.

3. leaving it loaded for extended periods?
Not likely a problem. Leave it loaded one shell less than it will hold for good measure if you are worried about it. Change out the shells in the magazine for fresh ones every few months so as not to chance a shell deformed from magazine spring pressure failing to chamber.

4. finally id like some training recomendations, whats a good way to train on a shot gun?
Start slow.
Practice essential safety rules, always (you DO NOT want to AD a shotgun).
Learn the 'admin stuff' first. How to load it, how to unload it, how to fieldstrip and clean it and get it back together again. (Snap caps or dummy rounds for learning.)
Learn the gun with light loads. LOTS of light loads, over time. Start with stationary targets.
Find someone to help you learn what you need to know. A hunter safety class or one of the NRA classes maybe. Could be a local trap/skeet range has sessions for newbies. No, clay pigeons are not likely to invade your home or crowbar open the back door. But they will help you prepare for any twolegged 'pigeon' who does.
Practice.
Practice.
Practice.

Stay safe,

lpl

 

[walking arsenal]

A couple of side notes.

Quote: "Respectfully, you should not be thinking in terms of CQB- alone and untrained, you have no business charging around the house with the possibility of there being someone armed and hostile waiting for you to find them. That is a great way to get really, really dead, really quickly."

Im asking about CQB not because i wish to go charging about my house in search of a BG, but because i live in a very cramped one room apartment with my wife and one deranged cat. my question is will the lengthy barrel become a problem when, say, turning corners etc etc.

Im thinking of using my bps because of a couple of things 1. its my bird gun and so im very familiar with it. 2. buying a used barrel for it and having it shortened is cheaper than buying a new gun (if anyone knows where i can get a bps 12 ga barrel for cheap lemme know)

 

[sm]

Lee Lapin , great advice.

I agree the more one handles and uses a platform, the better off they will be when things go south. Clay birds are not that big, repetition of breaking them is a great learning tool. They are moving targets , most likely so will be the BG that breaks in. Clays are smaller than a 9" paper plate which gives a good representation of a torso.

Using Lee's suggetions and advice - remember with a cramped apt, using furniture as cover /conealment - they are coming to you. I don't consider a longer bbl a handicap.

Most folks need to understand staying put behind cover is often better than "standing in the doorway/hallway of death" with a tricked out bling bling blaster, with no time invested in acutally shooting it. We are talking "defensive" use of firearm.

Pattern with a variety of loads at the longest distance a shot will be taken plus one yard in that apt. Use what is reliable and gives best performance on a 9" paper plate. Look in the mirror with a paper plate over chest - obvious huh?.

 

[lbmii]

If you are in an apartment I would not at all consider any sort of buckshot. I think No 8 birdshot would be best. This would create a devastating one-shot stop at close range.

Double Ought Buck creates through and through wounds in almost all shootings I have read about concerning double ought. Also it has considerable penetration of wall material.

Concerning apartments: I was on a jury of a trial where a man in his apartment with his wife and dog suddenly was startled by a skinhead pounding very hard on his door and cursing and yelling. The skinhead then went to the apartment next door and started to do the same. The man in the apartment came out and confronted the skinhead in the hall. An angry exchange occurred between the two. The man thought the skinhead was breaking into the apartment next door and had a horrible confrontation with the skinhead. The skinhead had just got out from 7 years in prison for burglary. The skinhead told the man that he was "going to bash his head in, kill that fat pig wife of his and kill his dog".

The man runs back into his apartment grabs a WWII era M1 carbine and goes back out into the hallway. The carbine goes off and hits the old hard plaster wall just in front of the skinhead's face. The skinhead is sprayed in the face and chest with chunks of hard plaster. This caused considerable bleeding and put the skinhead to flight.

Most of the people of the jury wanted the man who shot at the skinhead hung! The reason was that the man stepped out of his apartment and fired at the skinhead from the common hallway.

Mostly because of my actions on the jury he was charged with Third Degree Misdemeanor Assault. The rest of the jury wanted Felony First Degree Assault and Armed Criminal Action. I think the minimum was 5 years in prison.

So whatever you do, no matter what is going on, stay inside your apartment and do not step out into the hall. The chance of myself or one of the members of this site being on your jury is fairly low.

 

[walking arsenal]

jeez, duly noted, (Raises hand) i solemly swear i will only blast skinheads in the comfort of my own home.

luckily my apt is a 3rd level of a house so i share no walls, only the floor wich is my land ladies ceiling.