Gimme A Break, San Fran.

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doubleg

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Is anyone actually surprised. :scrutiny:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/17/BA2GUGI01.DTL


A lot has changed since San Francisco police Lt. John Murphy started working the drug and homicide beats in the 1980s.

"In the '80s, we'd get one, two or three guns a week," Murphy said. "Now it's like - who doesn't have one?"

Just about everyone, it seems. Kevin Ryan, the former U.S. attorney who worked on federal law enforcement for the Bush administration, recently joined the staff of San Francisco Gavin Newsom as director of the Office of Criminal Justice. He says the sheer numbers are shocking.

"There are 60,000 handguns in San Francisco," Ryan said. "And 2,400 assault rifles. There are a lot of guns out there."

You're reading that right. SIXTY THOUSAND guns in a population of less than 745,000 in a geographical area of 49 square miles. That's a gun in every five households, or one for every 12th man, woman or child.

And Ryan says confrontations are going nuclear almost immediately. "Instead of a fistfight, a dispute is elevated to a shooting at the drop of a hat."

You can pick your example, but for a clear case of mindless, senseless gunplay, it is hard to beat the incident at the downtown Metreon shopping mall in November, when a 15-year-old boy shot an 18-year-old three times after an argument over moving too slowly on the escalator. The victim was pronounced dead at San Francisco General Hospital 30 minutes later.

"It's sad," says Murphy. "He's 15 years old. How could you be that mad at that age?"

And what was a 15-year-old boy doing with a gun? Where do these guns come from?

Most San Franciscans might initially conclude that the city needs stronger gun laws. But Dr. Garen Wintemute, director of UC Davis' Violence Prevention Research Program, says, "In San Francisco, it is actually very difficult to legally buy a handgun."

But it's a different story outside city limits. Guns are flooding into town from out-of-state gun shows, like the one next month in Reno, where background checks and waiting periods are not required. Another common tactic is a "straw purchase," where someone without a criminal record legally buys weapons and then resells them for cash. Murphy says one individual bought 62 guns in one year.

"We have numerous cases," said San Francisco District Attorney Kamala Harris, "where someone buys legally, then drives a truck or SUV into the Bayview neighborhood, opens up the trunk and has a fire sale."

One thing is certain: Gun violence has local residents calling for action. After posting the highest homicide total in 12 years in 2007 (89), 2008 got off to a gruesome start with six deaths in the first two weeks - including a 19-year-old who was shot in the heart while sitting on porch steps chatting with his girlfriend.

"It's tragic and a source of frustration to everybody," said Harris. "They're people, human beings, and they've got lives."

Guns are also political dynamite. Newsom hired heavy-hitter Ryan to address persistent questions about the climbing homicide rate, and Harris made gun violence a centerpiece of her inaugural speech Jan. 8. And some don't want to touch it. Newly confirmed Northern California U.S. Attorney Joe Russoniello, who started work Jan. 7, was "not available" for a comment on the topic. His spokesman Josh Eaton said, "We recognize that this is an important issue. Accordingly, we will continue to work closely with federal and local authorities to address the problem."

So are there any suggestions? Actually there are, although the solution begins by understanding the motivation of the shooters.

"Since the mid-'80s," says Wintemute, "the illicit drug trade has armed itself with progressively more lethal weapons. If you live in that environment, you'd be foolish not to carry a gun. It's essential business equipment these days."

You might have guessed that. But what you might not know is that a very small number of shooters are causing a large number of the incidents. SFPD's Murphy says at one point his group was able to identify and remove 12 bad actors from a neighborhood and "we didn't have a shooting for seven months."

Wintemute says that approach is a big part of the "Boston Miracle," a gun violence program that dramatically reduced homicides in that city in the '90s.

"They called in the gang leadership," Wintemute said, "and they told them, 'We know who you are, and we know most of you are on probation. If you don't knock it off, you're going to see probation enforcement like you've never seen before.' "

Wintemute says the Boston police concentrated on nailing the slow learners who ignored the warnings, even if it was for jaywalking, to get them out of the area. The results were dramatic. (Unfortunately, Boston's homicide rate has climbed again after funding cuts and staffing problems.)

Still, it's an idea. In the coming weeks, everyone from Harris and Ryan to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, Tobacco and Explosives is promising dramatic new initiatives. They've gotten the memo. This is a topic that has the city's attention.

"It is a perception of safety and violence," said Ryan. "Do the citizens of San Francisco feel safe? I think there is a lot of anxiety out there."

Who knows, in a week or so, maybe even U.S. Attorney Russoniello will chime in.
 
"Instead of a fistfight, a dispute is elevated to a shooting at the drop of a hat."
That's what the anti's said before the "free states" passed shall-issue CCW laws.
Never happened.
"Do the citizens of San Francisco feel safe?
I don't want to FEEL safe, I want to BE safe.
 
But what you might not know is that a very small number of shooters are causing a large number of the incidents. SFPD's Murphy says at one point his group was able to identify and remove 12 bad actors from a neighborhood and "we didn't have a shooting for seven months."

Anyone who knows anything about crime knows that a small percentage of the population is responsible for a disproportionate percentage of the crime. At least they acknowledge that people actually have something to do with crime rather than an inanimate object like a gun.

Murphy says one individual bought 62 guns in one year.

Dang, I'm jealous. :scrutiny:
 
What else is in new in San Fran?

"It is a perception of safety and violence," said Ryan. "Do the citizens of San Francisco feel safe? I think there is a lot of anxiety out there."

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Yeah, San Franciscoans feel and are generally safe. It is a big town with a small town feeling. You can typically walk to good restaurants & nightlife anywhere in SF. There is no "fear" in the air compared to walking around in some other cities (St. Louis, Baltimore, Cleveland, DC, etc.) and you will see lots of locals and toursts walking about.

Crime is really low in SF, unfortunately there are some really seedy rough areas where most of the crime happens. The projects (Bayview/Hunters Point), the Tenderloin, and parts of Mission. Gun crimes do get inflated by local press.

It is just a place where flaming liberals control the politics, and they have an anti-gun agenda. Good thing the SF handgun ban has been struck down.
 
"There are 60,000 handguns in San Francisco," Ryan said.
So are there 60,000 criminals or 60,000 people that have armed themselves against criminals? The slant would indicate that the author is promoting the former.

You can pick your example, but for a clear case of mindless, senseless gunplay, it is hard to beat the incident…
Translation: I’ve chosen the most appalling example even though it’s completely atypical.

"It's sad," says Murphy. "He's 15 years old. How could you be that mad at that age?"
You could be mentally deranged. Maybe the author would be happier if the 15 year old hacked him to death with a Phillips head screwdriver instead. I’ll note that there’s no discussion of dealing with a 15 year old with criminal level anger management issues.

Guns are flooding into town…
Whenever you read nonsensical inflammatory language like this, put your waders on, the BS is going to get deep. If they were, indeed, flooding into town the police would certainly notice and the surfers would be trying to catch the wave.

…someone buys legally, then drives a truck or SUV into the Bayview neighborhood, opens up the trunk and has a fire sale."
If that’s the case, then they weren’t buying legally. What kind of jackass would believe that someone who is willing to break the law will cower at the idea of breaking a slightly different law?

…what you might not know is that a very small number of shooters are causing a large number of the incidents.
…and if we take the guns away from the people who don’t use the drugs, the dealers will give up theirs in solidarity. Hmmm, maybe if you made dealing drugs too much risk for the gain, the problem might be solved.

Wintemute says the Boston police concentrated on nailing the slow learners who ignored the warnings, even if it was for jaywalking, to get them out of the area. The results were dramatic.
The solution had nothing to do with restricting firearms, so to duplicate it, we’ll ban some firearms.

Who knows, in a week or so, maybe even U.S. Attorney Russoniello will chime in.
Ah, the author waits until the last line to reveal his objective: Shame the Attorney into writing an opinion the way the author believes he should.
 
SIXTY THOUSAND guns in a population of less than 745,000 in a geographical area of 49 square miles.

That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?

After posting the highest homicide total in 12 years in 2007 (89)
I grew up in Baltimore. We could post THREE TIMES that and have a record LOW year. Sounds like a peaceful city, but I doubt its due to lack of guns.

I'll never live there, and likely, never go there. I'm not as hardcore as many on this forum, and I don't carry everywhere, especially now that I live on an AF Base. For the most part I won't avoid a certain place just because I can't carry there. But I will always live in a Shall-Issue state.
 
I was almost waiting to hear the writer admit that gun bans increase crime. To me it seemed like that was what he was leading up to... Maybe it was edited out. of course I would hope so, but I am biased towards pro-gun just SLIGHTLY. I'm impressed with this article overall, I'm honestly just glad that he didn't say "Oh, well we must need to ban guns even more if it isn't working yet!"
 
Guns are flooding into town from out-of-state gun shows, like the one next month in Reno, where background checks and waiting periods are not required.

I'm sure this is a lie. To buy a gun in the state of Nevada, unless it is private party, you have to go through a background check. I have not bought any guns from a gun show, but I think you have to a Nevada resident and a back ground check.
 
You're reading that right. SIXTY THOUSAND guns in a population of less than 745,000 in a geographical area of 49 square miles. That's a gun in every five households, or one for every 12th man, woman or child.
What's in tarnation is the matter with SF citizens? They're durn near defenseless. They need to start buying guns toot sweet!

"It's sad," says Murphy. "He's 15 years old. How could you be that mad at that age?"
Oh, I don't know, maybe a total lack of parenting?

Another common tactic is a "straw purchase," where someone without a criminal record legally buys weapons and then resells them for cash. Murphy says one individual bought 62 guns in one year.
Since this is illegal, I don't believe for a minute it's happening. After all, who would break the law?:scrutiny:
 
The FBI said Straw Purchases account for something like 3% of guns involved in gun violence.

So number 1, a straw purchase is plain illegal.
Number 2, it's not that common.

Source: “Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on America’s Law Enforcement Officers," Author? The FBI.
 
Damn, so I have more hand guns then 200 people in SF... thats not surprizing... The city is by no means safe.
 
i spent the last weekend walking around SF late into the night. I never felt in danger. I'm sure in some areas it's not the case, but it's mostly scumbags shooting other scumbags.

What SF needs is more cops and stricter enforcement and prosecution of existing laws.
 
Last time I was in San Fran I was nearly mugged by a crackhead one block off of downtown last year. The only thing that stopped it is I saw the guy watching me, moving his hand to his pocket, and suddenly walking quickly towards me. I quickly changed direction and headed back to the "light". I would have been much more comfortable while basically running for it had I been packing anything more intimidating than a micro-leatherman.
 
If you don't knock it off, you're going to see probation enforcement like you've never seen before

Somehow this doesn't quite sound like the sort of words that strike fear into the hearts of evildoers.
 
This writer is a typical liberal who's anti gun agenda was knocked off the rails recently when the S.F. gun ban was overturned.

They are like rust, they never sleep.

It doesn't matter that they are wrong, they think they are right and afterall...they know more than we (unwashed masses) do.

As to threatening enforcing probation violations if they don't behave, lock them up for spitting on the sidewalk on a constant basis. Off the street is out of circulation and probation violations are probation violations.

That argument sounds weak, like the typical spineless parent with a childzilla that acts up and never obeys and irritates the crap out of people whenever they are in public. Never threaten, only do.
 
Only one handgun per resident in SF? No wonder they have so much crime. :)

I think the national average is higher than that. I know in my house it is more like 5:1 and we haven't had a shooting for a long time, like never.

The article started off predictable enough anti-gun, but later on seemed to be making a pretty good case for focusing on the worst criminals and not the guns.
 
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