Good Write up on the state of the NRA

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larryh1108

larryh1108

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I found this to be a good description of what went on and is going on within the NRA. Considering it is from MSN makes it even more interesting.... at least to me.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/h...t-at-the-nra/ar-AAGbW5E?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=wispr

Previous reporting by The Times and others has chronicled the internal tumult around Mr. North’s departure. But the new documents show a deeper level of coordination than was previously known in the effort against Mr. LaPierre, with extensive discussions between Mr. North’s allies and the N.R.A.’s own outside counsels. Mr. Cooper and other lawyers exchanged emails urging leaks and countermeasures that would undermine Mr. LaPierre’s strategy. At one point in April Mr. Cooper wrote another lawyer in frustration, saying, “No one on our side will leak.”
Click to expand...
 
Great article. Thanks for sharing. Money and power....the root of nearly every dispute. Throw in a jilted lover and we have the trifecta.

I have to admit that I’m growing weary of the fringe groups bashing the NRA though.


POTUS goes from support of UBC to not supporting UBC. Money well-spent. It was The NRA leadership at the table....not the fringe groups diverting 2A donations.

But but his suits are expensive....can’t go to the White House in 5.11 cargo pants.

But but his salary.... he’s on par with CEOs who operate similar companies, but he must also have the political capital to be effective. Should we hire a mid-level manager from Walmart at $60k?

But but they supported taking our bump stocks..... really? There has to be some compromise in politics. If we’re seen as uncompromising, we wont be at any tables. If someone asked me five years ago if I can choose one worthless POS gun item that I could live without, bump stocks would be at the top of the list.

Where was the GOA? Spending your money on t-shirts and beard trimmers....

**** this is not aimed at the op....this is just my uncorked rant
 
guyfromohio said:
I have to admit that I’m growing weary of the fringe groups bashing the NRA though.

POTUS goes from support of UBC to not supporting UBC. Money well-spent.
Click to expand...
I need a bigger Like button.

Given what we already know about the Left's hate for the NRA, and willingness to lie outright, I relegate the Left's accusations to the Extraordinary Claims department, and will be waiting for extraordinary proof.
 
''There has to be some compromise in politics.''

What was it exactly that 2A got in exchange for the heavy handed bumpstick ban again? I missed what I got 'cause others sliced up their gun parts.

I am fairly certain it was a big fat goose egg i.e. ''O''
 
I am a lifetime NRA member and have sent them money over the years.
I never felt it was money wasted.... until the North mess was publicized.
I have to admit that I turned against LaPierre from what I read and heard.
Shame on me.
The whole story has slowly been released and it seems to be a power struggle and not the mismanagement of funds. as had been claimed.
I never liked Wayne as the face of the NRA but time and again he seems to do the job he was hired to do.
I was duped by the propaganda and swore to not give another penny until Wayne was gone.
It seems like I had a knee-jerk reaction.
Shame on me.
After Trump's latest support of the 2nd, I sent some money to the NRA.
They need us and we need them, like them or not. Like Wayne or not.
 
i've been a lifetime member of the NRA since 1960: For decades i contributed until it hurt. Wayne La Pierre and the NRA board have wasted my donations on too many shady deals. i will contribute no more until La Pierre is gone.

Two more NRA board members; including Childress, the former first vice president, very recently resigned.

WLP attempted to have the NRA fund a five million dollar mansion in Dallas, citing "security reasons".

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/luxe-texas-mansion-nra-nearly-bought-wayne-lapierre

Your donations paid for beauticians and hair dressers to accompany WLP and his wife on trips.

https://www.secondamendmentdaily.co...ollars-on-hair-and-makeup-for-lapierres-wife/
 
Nothing in either article addresses the waste of members funds or the nepotism and corruption that was revealed in those leaked documents. The articles quickly try to sweep that aspect of this mess under the rug. Waste and disrespect like this cannot be brushed aside easily.

If I have not missed any one this is a list of those that have resigned or been forced out due to or by WLP and those that support him:

Oliver North, President, 04/27/19
Pete Brownells, Iowa, Board of Directors 05/30/19
Chris Cox, Chief Lobbyist 06/20/19
Esther Schneider, Texas, Board of Directors 08/01/19
Sean Maloney, Ohio, Board of Directors 08/01/19
Timothy Knight, Tennessee, Board of Directors 08/01/19
Julie Golob, Missouri, Board of Directors 08/12/19
Craig Morgan, Board of Directors 08/20/19
Richard Childress, Board of Directors 08/20/19
David Lehman, Deputy Executive director and General Counsel 08/20/19

ETA: If it matters I am a life member. One that will not support the organization further until a major leadership change happens.
 
I decided to reserve judgment until details emerged. It appears they have.
Some of my acquaintances were willing to buy the obviously biased media reports and throw the NRA, as a whole, under the bus.

I will not pretend to know the inner workings of the NRA and honestly, I do not care as long as I see “The NRA is fighting (fill in the blank)” in media headlines.

When other pro 2A groups can garner the headlines and the juice that the NRA can then I will take them more seriously and support them. Until then, I will support the NRA. Warts and all!
 
alsaqr said:
i've been a lifetime member of the NRA since 1960: For decades i contributed until it hurt. Wayne La Pierre and the NRA board have wasted my donations on too many shady deals. i will contribute no more until La Pierre is gone.

Two more NRA board members; including Childress, the former first vice president, very recently resigned.

WLP attempted to have the NRA fund a five million dollar mansion in Dallas, citing "security reasons".

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/luxe-texas-mansion-nra-nearly-bought-wayne-lapierre

Your donations paid for beauticians and hair dressers to accompany WLP and his wife on trips.

https://www.secondamendmentdaily.co...ollars-on-hair-and-makeup-for-lapierres-wife/
Click to expand...

Funny how propaganda works, huh?
 
guyfromohio said:
But but they supported taking our bump stocks..... really? There has to be some compromise in politics. If we’re seen as uncompromising, we wont be at any tables. If someone asked me five years ago if I can choose one worthless POS gun item that I could live without, bump stocks would be at the top of the list.
Click to expand...
I think your definition of "compromise" might be a bit hazy. Compromise doesn't mean that, over time, one side gives up a little more each time the argument comes up.
 
bearcreek said:
I think your definition of "compromise" might be a bit hazy. Compromise doesn't mean that, over time, one side gives up a little more each time the argument comes up.
Click to expand...


Then I guess we fold our arms and stomp our feet until “bearing arms” is reduced to cutlery. I will opine that the typical Republican gives a rat’s butt about our right to possess sporting rifles and >10-round magazines. The Supreme Court doesn’t care about them or they would have heard cases out of the coasts where those things are already banned. Once we become “those gun guys” to our own base, we’ve lost. So yes, we give a little to protect much more.
 
As one of my old professors observed, "The law is like sausage. If you love it, you don't want to watch it being made." The lobbying has always been one of the seamiest aspects of our system, yet many years have proven its effectiveness. It's all about appearance and access. There is no clean end on this fecal deposit. That's how things work whether we like it or not.
Yes, it would be nice to be able to change that, but not realistic to cripple your own special interest group before dealing with others. No compromise sounds great, like mandatory prison sentences. The reality is much more complicated.
 
mcb said:
Nothing in either article addresses the waste of members funds or the nepotism and corruption that was revealed in those leaked documents. The articles quickly try to sweep that aspect of this mess under the rug. Waste and disrespect like this cannot be brushed aside easily.

If I have not missed any one this is a list of those that have resigned or been forced out due to or by WLP and those that support him:

Oliver North, President, 04/27/19
Pete Brownells, Iowa, Board of Directors 05/30/19
Chris Cox, Chief Lobbyist 06/20/19
Esther Schneider, Texas, Board of Directors 08/01/19
Sean Maloney, Ohio, Board of Directors 08/01/19
Timothy Knight, Tennessee, Board of Directors 08/01/19
Julie Golob, Missouri, Board of Directors 08/12/19
Craig Morgan, Board of Directors 08/20/19
Richard Childress, Board of Directors 08/20/19
David Lehman, Deputy Executive director and General Counsel 08/20/19

ETA: If it matters I am a life member. One that will not support the organization further until a major leadership change happens.
Click to expand...

Yep, it appears that the repercussions of a failed coup are taking it's toll.
It's a power struggle for sure.
As more info is released, it appears that a coup was formed and failed.
Is there waste at the upper levels?
I have no doubt that there is.
Show my any multi-million dollar company that doesn't have waste and I'll tell you that is hasn't been found yet.
The job of the NRA is to preserve, as best as possible, our 2nd amendment rights.
So far, they have done that, make up be d@mned.

I shake my head when we give up something as insignificant as a bump stock ban when they didn't get our semi-auto "assault rifles".
When we have morons trying to become martyrs with suicide-by-cop actions of mass carnage, the public does take notice.

Many seem to think that our God given rights cannot be compromised. They draw their line in the sand and say "no more. It ends here."
While a noble statement, it's not that easy. They fail to realize that if we have 200 million voters in this country, almost 100 million disagree
with their views on "God given rights". Yeah, pisz off enough voting Americans and our rights CAN and WILL be taken away. SO many
refuse to understand this. If enough Americans get fed up, they will put the people in office to take away our rights. It can happen. It
has happened and there is nothing the line in the sand guy can do to stop it if things go awry.

An idiot mows down 50+ people in Las Vegas.Totally senseless and tragic. The NRA does not stop a bump stock ban and they are weak and
toothless. Really? I'm sorry, but did you see an AW ban that was ripe to be implemented? This last double tragedy in TX and OH seemed
to nudge fence-sitters towards an AW ban and UBCs. The voting public is getting weary of the tragedies. The left is seizing the moment, trying to force their agenda when we are raw. They never stop. They will never stop. Their goal is disarmament.

Who remembers Obama's anger at Congress and the NRA when his bill failed after Sandy Hook. If there was a time for us to lose our rights,
Sandy Hook was it. He blasted the NRA. The NRA is the 1000# gorilla on the backs of the gun grabbers. Like the NRA or not, disagree with
them when they can't stop a bump stock ban, call them traitors when they give up a crumb instead of the whole pie. Go ahead, knock them down.
Just know that the NRA is there fighting for our rights and doing it as well as can be expected. They left HATES the NRA. Why? Because they
continually knock down their desire to disarm us. We are the NRA.

If makeup and suits is enough propaganda to stop your support then the left won.
Without your money, there is no NRA.
Without the NRA there is no 2nd amendment.
 
guyfromohio said:
Then I guess we fold our arms and stomp our feet until “bearing arms” is reduced to cutlery.
Click to expand...
That's one way to put it. Your suggestion then is to just give up a little each time the discussion comes up? Where do you draw the line and why do you draw it where you draw it?

guyfromohio said:
I will opine that the typical Republican gives a rat’s butt about our right to possess sporting rifles and >10-round magazines.
Click to expand...
They do care about "sporting" rifles right now because that's what a lot of them think the 2A is about. Lot's of Democrats are fine with hunting and target shooting rifles as well (with proper registration, of course). The 2A isn't about "sporting" rifles, it's about fighting rifles (and other small arms). If that's what you meant, then yes, lot's of Republicans have violated their oath of office as well, not just Democrats.
 
bearcreek said:
That's one way to put it. Your suggestion then is to just give up a little each time the discussion comes up? Where do you draw the line and why do you draw it where you draw it?

They do care about "sporting" rifles right now because that's what a lot of them think the 2A is about. Lot's of Democrats are fine with hunting and target shooting rifles as well (with proper registration, of course). The 2A isn't about "sporting" rifles, it's about fighting rifles (and other small arms). If that's what you meant, then yes, lot's of Republicans have violated their oath of office as well, not just Democrats.
Click to expand...


Ok... I’m trying to appeal to our delicate sensibilities..... “Assault Rifles”... then or commonly termed “sporting rifles” as opposed to hunting rifles....ie Colt Sporter.
 
guyfromohio said:
Ok... I’m trying to appeal to our delicate sensibilities..... “Assault Rifles”... then or commonly termed “sporting rifles” as opposed to hunting rifles....ie Colt Sporter.
Click to expand...
I'm aware of the ridiculous PC BS that some in the NRA and the "gun community" have tried to push on us. They seriously underestimate people's intelligence I think. A person who wants semi auto's banned isn't going to just magically change their mind because you call a fighting rifle "sporting". You might fool them for a little while but not for long.

Anyway, I get where you're coming from. On the surface it seems like giving up something like bump stocks (a ridiculous toy) is worthwhile. The problem is the precedent that was set and where the next "compromise" will be. It's the old boiled frog analogy.
 
larryh1108 said:
Yep, it appears that the repercussions of a failed coup are taking it's toll.
It's a power struggle for sure.
As more info is released, it appears that a coup was formed and failed.
Is there waste at the upper levels?
I have no doubt that there is.
Show my any multi-million dollar company that doesn't have waste and I'll tell you that is hasn't been found yet.
The job of the NRA is to preserve, as best as possible, our 2nd amendment rights.
So far, they have done that, make up be d@mned.

I shake my head when we give up something as insignificant as a bump stock ban when they didn't get our semi-auto "assault rifles".
When we have morons trying to become martyrs with suicide-by-cop actions of mass carnage, the public does take notice.

Many seem to think that our God given rights cannot be compromised. They draw their line in the sand and say "no more. It ends here."
While a noble statement, it's not that easy. They fail to realize that if we have 200 million voters in this country, almost 100 million disagree
with their views on "God given rights". Yeah, pisz off enough voting Americans and our rights CAN and WILL be taken away. SO many
refuse to understand this. If enough Americans get fed up, they will put the people in office to take away our rights. It can happen. It
has happened and there is nothing the line in the sand guy can do to stop it if things go awry.

An idiot mows down 50+ people in Las Vegas.Totally senseless and tragic. The NRA does not stop a bump stock ban and they are weak and
toothless. Really? I'm sorry, but did you see an AW ban that was ripe to be implemented? This last double tragedy in TX and OH seemed
to nudge fence-sitters towards an AW ban and UBCs. The voting public is getting weary of the tragedies. The left is seizing the moment, trying to force their agenda when we are raw. They never stop. They will never stop. Their goal is disarmament.

Who remembers Obama's anger at Congress and the NRA when his bill failed after Sandy Hook. If there was a time for us to lose our rights,
Sandy Hook was it. He blasted the NRA. The NRA is the 1000# gorilla on the backs of the gun grabbers. Like the NRA or not, disagree with
them when they can't stop a bump stock ban, call them traitors when they give up a crumb instead of the whole pie. Go ahead, knock them down.
Just know that the NRA is there fighting for our rights and doing it as well as can be expected. They left HATES the NRA. Why? Because they
continually knock down their desire to disarm us. We are the NRA.

If makeup and suits is enough propaganda to stop your support then the left won.
Without your money, there is no NRA.
Without the NRA there is no 2nd amendment.
Click to expand...

A failed coup does not mean it was an unjust coup (or revolution). The leaked documents show a culture of wanton waste of members' money and even if that waste is a relatively small percentage of total revenues it is still a disrespect to the members. And we have no idea how extensive the corruption is since the leaked documents may be all the waste or just the tip of the iceberg but since the NRA refuses an external and transparent audit of their finances we have no way of knowing how extensive.

As for bump stocks my problem was less with them being outlawed but how they were outlawed. The executive branch (through the ATF) had interpreted the law one way for nearly a decade and then through public pressure and the whim of the President the ATF was pressured into reversing its interpretation. That is NOT how our government works. If you wanted bump stock outlawed you get the legislative branch to create a bill and vote on it and then the President signs that into law and enforces it. I might disagree with the new law but that is at least constitutional and I can respect it for that.

Allowing bump-stocks to be outlawed the way they were puts pistol braces squarely in the anti-2A movements sights next and semi-autos or any other thing they want if they are allowed to re-interpret laws at will without legislative guidance through bills/laws and jurists oversight through legal cases.

Just because the NRA has stumbled does not mean the anti-2A has won on 2A issues. The NRA is not the only pro-2A lobby out there. If anything this mess in the NRA has shown us we should not keep all our pro-2A lobbying power in one organization, since one major scandal can do huge amounts of damage to our 2A goals as we are seeing. So even if the NRA is completely vindicated of this apparent miss use of members funds my money is going somewhere else so that we are not reliant only one mega pro-2A organization but that we have several well establish groups so if one stumbles the whole movement does not.
 
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bearcreek said:
I'm aware of the ridiculous PC BS that some in the NRA and the "gun community" have tried to push on us. They seriously underestimate people's intelligence I think. A person who wants semi auto's banned isn't going to just magically change their mind because you call a fighting rifle "sporting". You might fool them for a little while but not for long.

Anyway, I get where you're coming from. On the surface it seems like giving up something like bump stocks (a ridiculous toy) is worthwhile. The problem is the precedent that was set and where the next "compromise" will be. It's the old boiled frog analogy.
Click to expand...


You’re not wrong. The boiled frog analogy is spot on. I get it. The world is changing and I’m very afraid that a few more mass-casualty events will bring about a drastic change that will never be undone. The chips are stacked against us.
 
I firmly believe that without the NRA that all we would be allowed to own in the way of firearms today would be, at best, a single shot 22 rimfire and it could only be used at an "approved" range. Probably nothing at all. I have no idea what GOA manages to accomplish with the money it receives from it's members if anything except spend it on salaries and trying to recruit more members. It certain isn't enough to be newsworthy. They don't even exist to most people and certainly don't inspire dread in any politican or anti-gun group. I'm sticking with the NRA, warts and all, because they actually manage to accomplish enough to earn the the hate and fear of those groups.
 
That's ok.
Give where you choose or choose not to give at all.

Say what you want about how assault rifle and modern sporting rifle is semantics. Say the public is smart.
Yeah, they are smart. Guys in the "gun community" know the difference. Even the talking heads know what is going on.
Does our reps know? You think? Is it that thing that goes up? Do they care?
The point is, the soccer moms who have little Johnny and Tiffany in school don't know the difference.
The scary, black assault rifles shoot their kids at school. That's what they see.
Almost half of the voting Americans don't want is to have these scary guns. The left and media keep pounding on them to
pass laws to have them banned. If there is no NRA, these new laws will pass thru. Like it or not, we are what stands in the
way of new laws being shoved down our throats if a few more fence sitters get sick of assault rifles killing their kids.
The number of votes is not that far apart and those who think that their "God given rights" can't be touched are being foolish.

Do we want full clarity in the NRA offices? Yes, we do. It is up to us who pay their dues to demand it. If you don't pay, you have
to right to demand an audit. It is not your money. Do not jump on the propaganda bandwagon and beat your chest. You have no
right to demand anything. If you do not contribute, you cannot dictate policy.

Does anybody here not think this coup was not backed by gun grabbers? Yeah, there was a coup. Money and power drive all coups.
The antis want us to fight among ourselves to divide up. If we stand as one, we are formidable. If we break apart and fight as 10
different groups (all worthy, mind you) then we will lose. The antis want division and reading opinions here shows me that they are
getting what they want. Yeah, as long as the NRA is around and strong, the antis will struggle mightily. If they fracture the NRA, they
will surely get their way. They know this. They are patient. Right now, they are winning.

There is an estimated 100 million gun owners in the US. There are 5 million (and declining) NRA members. That's 5%. That's
pathetic. If we moved to 10 million members, that would only be 10% of the gun owners. However, if 5% is this strong, how strong
will 10% be? Yeah, listen to the propaganda. Abandon the NRA because of lipstick and suits and expensive hotel rooms. Lobbyists
is every sector are the same. They waste millions of dollars to buy the votes they need to get the job done. They all do it. Is it
right? No. Does it waste our money? Yes. Do we like it? No. However, this is how the game is plays.

Go ahead. Allow the propaganda from the left sway your thinking. When the day comes that you have to show a permit to buy a box of
ammo at your local gun shop because you were swayed by lipstick and bump stocks, look in the mirror. You allowed them to win.
 
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