Got Pulled over By 4 cops today while carting (CA)

[silverlance]

I didn't see a stop sign today and stumbled at 12mph over a stop sign today. It was totally my fault, I tried to stop, then realized that it would be hopeless, and so I just let go the brake and coasted over it. Just then I turned my head and saw the copper look up and go, "Hey..."

I pulled over. First thing he asked me was, "Are there any firearms in the car?" Apparently they read your lic and can tell if you own guns. At first he was kind of rude, but when he asked me if I knew what I did I told him, "Well, I thought I stopped long enough"... "Hah! Not even close!"... "Well, sir, like I said, I -thought- I stopped long enough. I admit it... sorry."

Then three other cops pulled up, boxed me in on the sidewalk. The primary cop asked me if I had a pocket knife on me (I did) and I was told to put it on the seat and get out. I was casually searched and then made to sit on a low wall with my ankles crossed and my hands behind my back. They didn't cuff me. I was asked if they could search the inside of my car - they were very careful say tell me that it was just the interior - and I said, "Go ahead..." mainly because by that time they were asking me what I shoot, and where, and I told them that I had seen them before at my range....

Things got pretty nice from that point on, one of the cops suggested I try his range, and I told him that I already had a membership there but didn't like the overabundance of rules. That earned me a few knowing nods.

The ticket that was given to me was that I was going at about 12mph over a stop sign, and I was made to sign the notice to appear. The cops wished me a good day at the range, I thanked them for coming out, and I dejectedly got back into my car...

It was very nice of them to be friendly, and not treat me like a criminal just because I owned guns. They were also understanding enough not to ask me to open the trunk, as (even though everything I had in there was in legal shape) it is very easy to break the law regarding firearms in CA and they knew that if they saw anything "wrong" they would have to report it.

examples are magazines in mag wells, loaded magazines, AP ammo, tracers, hi caps, AWs, night vision scopes, etc.

all in all I am quite sad that all the overtime money I earned this month is gone and that I will have to go to traffic school, but at least the cops didn't leave me feeling like I'd been punked.

pardon the lack of literary finesse, i'm quite tired right now and just wanted to get this experience off my chest while the memory is still fresh.

if they asked to search my trunk I probably would not have let them. sometimes a guy has to stand his ground and that would have been it. i had a para sks, m39, 10/22, mosquito, and cal-fal in the trunk.

 

[razorburn]

The small talk is to put people off their guard and open up permissiveness for otherwise unwarranted searches, not because they wanted to be your friend. A traffic law violation doesn't rationally lead to an unwarranted search for illegal arms. If you were not a gun owner, you would've just got a ticket and be sent on your way. If you'd made friends with them while they were off-duty at the range, it'd be a different story. But not on the job.

 

[Kim]

Why did they search your car???????? You have to take a class for this???? Never heard of such. I can not imagine living in a place where the police would treat me like that. Just a ticket would have been all that was necessary. It is amazing that anyone would think what they did for a traffic violation was normal.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

It was very nice of them to be friendly, and not treat me like a criminal just because I owned guns.

You don't think you got treated like a criminal, huh? Man, things must be real tough in California.

A total of four policemen pull you over for running a stop sign. They make you empty your pockets. They search your person. They make you get out of your car, and sit on the curb with your hands behind your back. They ask you questions about gun ownership that are not relevant. Then they search your car.

Now, if that had happened to me, about the time 4 police officers showed up to give me a ticket for running a stop sign, I would pretty much feel like I was being treated like a criminal.

If you are OK with what happened to you, please, I beg you, stay in California!

 

[B.D. Turner]

How can you tell a person owns firearms by looking at a California drivers license?

 

[Librarian]

How can you tell a person owns firearms by looking at a California drivers license?

Looking? Can't. Call it in for a records check and anything the state knows about gets fed back. DROS - Dealer's Record Of Sales data is tied to your DL.

 

[Kim]

If four police came up because I ran a stop sign I would be calling 911 for help. I would be SCARED.

 

[FieroCDSP]

How can you tell a person owns firearms by looking at a California drivers license?

They're the ones that have a scowl permanently etched on their faces from the repression of unfair, useless laws.

 

[silverlance]

well, lone, yup it sucked, but remember, this is the state where folks who don't comply get compliance strikes off the hood of the car...

sure, I could have said, "no, you may not search the interior of my car". then they would have called up to get a warrant. next thing you know, they pull out every steel jacketed round they find and tell me that I have armor piercing ammunition (it's not.). i'd get cuffed, my guns would be pulled out of the trunk and laid out for the world to see, etc.

folks, this is california. it ain't tennesee. sure, I feel like they were being extra careful with me because of the guns. sure, maybe they were just trying to get my guard down so they could search me. I don't know. I wasn't thinking very much at that point, just bummed out about the ticket. it's also quite possible that i've been here for so long I've started to think that guns are magically powerful items that emit hostility and whisper murderous thoughts in your ears.

i'm pretty sure, though, that if I had refused to allow them to search the interior of my car a warrant would not have been long in coming. or maybe not - i'm no LEO. someone with more knowledge about warrants etc let me know.

 

[silverlance]

by the way, guys, the "lic" iw as referring to is my LICENSE PLATE. the cop hadn't even seen my card at that point. he alredy had his gun unbuckled, too. course, i did something stupid... i tried to get out of the car.

like I said, I wasn't thinking.

 

[razorburn]

They need to write an affidavit, a written statement under oath, to a judge to convince him they have probable cause for a search to get a warrrant. A traffic violation isn't PC.

 

[BigBlock]

i'm pretty sure, though, that if I had refused to allow them to search the interior of my car a warrant would not have been long in coming.

A warrant for what? What's the cop going to say to the judge? "Uh...yeah, this guy has a pocket knife, we better get a warrant!".

 

[silverlance]

can't they just claim that the suspect I have illegal weapons in the car, and that I am acting suspiciously, ie., I'm wearing camo? I just have the impression that judges have a nice relationship with cops and pretty much give out warrants whenever they hear of someone refusing to allow cops to search a car. it's not as if I can sue them or anything if they search my car and find nothing incriminating.

 

[F4GIB]

Watch out guys. You aren't servile enough. Someone with thin skin is going to accuse you of "cop bashing."

 

[HiroProX]

silverlance, then why not move?

Money or rights, it is a choice. Besides, a lower salary elsewhere would actually be a raise once the lower cost of living is factored in.

F4GIB, I'll stop pointing out police excesses, when they remember that it is their choice to enforce bad laws, and cease to choose to do so.

 

[MikePGS]

That sounds like the city i live by. I live in the city of warren michigan which is pretty large. Within this city is a small city called centerline. Once i had a broken tailight and in addition to the cruiser that pulled me over two other cars pulled up on me for a total of four or five officers. And this for a tail light! they asked to search my trunk and i allowed them to, which resulted in them finding nothing since i had nothing of interest in there. But its just a ridiculous amount of overkill for the city... its probably 1 or 2 quare miles so i guess whenever any action happens every officer in the area rolls up. The other day there was a small fender bender accident that i saw (the airbag had deployed and there was some cosmetic damage to one of the cars). There were four cars that responded to it! including two suv's that were crime scene units. In all fairness since it was near the edge of centerline and warren there were two cars from each city... but still thats a bit ridiculous.

 

[BigBlock]

can't they just claim that the suspect I have illegal weapons in the car, and that I am acting suspiciously

Only if they have a solid reason to believe that. Just 'cause you've got a legal gun is in no way a reason. And you can act as suspicious as you want as long as you don't stink like weed or booze. The vast majority of people are very nervous when they get pulled over...especially if 4 cops show up.

 

[tnieto2004]

What happened was not a normal traffic stop. At least not here in TX. I would be SHOCKED and INSULTED if i was searched after rolling through a stop sign. I would be writing to the city about that.

 

[Kali Endgame]

Silverlance,

I was pulled over with less than legal transportation and didn't get searched. What was on your license plate?

IDrivesaftely.com is a good traffic school to take. It costs $19.95. It's at your own pace. The certificate is mailed and takes about 3-4 days to get to you. I just cleared the ticket a couple of days ago.

Good luck with all that.

 

[SoCalShooter]

examples are magazines in mag wells, loaded magazines, AP ammo, tracers, hi caps, AWs, night vision scopes, etc.

magazines in magwells? WHA? I always leave an empty magazine in the weapon if it is traveling...so I dont lose the darn thing.

Loaded magazines I can see a problem if they are near the weapon and not locked in the trunk away from the weapon.

AP ammo...tell him to prove it, AP ammo has green or black tip depending on caliber usually a standard .223 varmint round is not AP ammo.

Tracers could definetly be a problem tell him to prove on sight its a tracer otherwise its speculation.

HI caps? How old are you? If you made it in before the 94 ban then the cop can say all he wants but in a court you can prove that you have had it since 1994 and they are grandfathered in otherwise.

AW as long as you legally own the weapon and it is not modified past what a cop will recognize you should be just fine.

Night vision scopes are legal I have a gen 2 scope. What is etc?

 

[John C]

Sorry, I have to chime in here.

Everytime someone gets pulled over on this forum, people automatically assume his rights were violated. In most routine traffic stops, the cops are just trying to write a ticket to make their supervisor happy.

Think of it this way. Silverlance lives in/near LA. The cops their ride in two man cars. One car makes a traffic stop on an admitted stopsign violation. His buddies in the other car hear him make the stop, and they cruise over their to see their friends, and maybe help out if something turns up. I'll bet a dollar that as silverlance was driving away, the cops were chatting with each other, not driving away. This is the cop equivalent of stopping at the water cooler to chat.

Silverlance admitted that he tried to get out of his car before the officer was up to his window. This is unusual. Your grandmother probably doesn't do this when she's stopped by the police. The officer politely asked silverlance to leave his pocketknife on the seat of his car and step out and talk to him, since he was so eager to get out of the car. They then asked him to sit on the curb while they wrote their ticket. Sure, they did a cursory search of the car, but didn't even bother to ask to search his trunk.

I know things are different in different parts of the country. Four officers is probably a serious thing in Tennessee or wherever. (I'm not being condescending. The average size of a police dept. in the US is 6 officers.) In LA, 2 officers go on EVERY call. A cold burglary report? Two officer go to take it. To have 10 or 12 officers on a large call is not out of the ordinary.

Silverlance, sorry for the ticket. One thing you can try is to ask the judge to allow you to do community service in lieu of a fine. I used to do this when I was a young chucklehead. Of course, I was making like $6 an hour, and the judge would do something like say "the fine is $150. I sentence you to 10 hours of community service." So with what I was making, the deal was awesome, plus there were no taxes. This does not mean you'll be picking up trash by the side of the road. I just went to my church and did little projects that needed to be done while eating cookies and drinking lemonade. My pastor would then sign me off and I'd send the paper into the court. You may make too much money for this to be worthwhile, but just to let you know.

-John

 

[gunfire876]

I teach ccdw in KY

My buddy who was a police chief in the county over helped me. I learned thru him that by running your plates they know if you have a CCDW lic. and he said a cop should always run a plate first before approaching a car so you know what your dealing with(stolen car,murder suspect's car etc. etc.) In KY most cops are mainly pro gun. I speed alot and get pulled over alot and have never had a problem with my guns. However they do know if you have a ccdw license.

 

[F4GIB]

The vast majority of people are very nervous when they get pulled over...

That's 95% of most probable cause testimonials. "He was nervous and wouldn't make eye contact, then ... ."

Or, alternatively, "He wasn't nervous when he should have been ... ."

It works either way.

 

[razorburn]

He had 4 cars, which is then 8 officers. They boxed his car in, for fear he would run. The officer which approached him, had unbuckled his gun first so as to be prepared to shoot him. His person was searched and his car was searched. They did this without anything that could be construed as probable cause, but only because they ran his plates and knew he was a gun owner. I live in the city too, but this has never happened to me... It's not a routine traffic stop for a minor traffic violation.

And probable cause is

Probable cause
Facts or evidence that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed and the person arrested is responsible

At this stage, police may perform a search, and often an arrest. Probable cause generally means police know what crime they suspect you of and have discovered evidence to support that belief. Common examples include seeing or smelling evidence which is in plain view, or receiving an admission of guilt for a specific crime.

For the conscientious citizen, the best advice regarding police authority is to stick to your guns and not waive your constitutional rights under any circumstances. Police officers will often give misleading descriptions of what their authority is, but you have nothing to gain by submitting to coercive police tactics. Police must make ad hoc decisions in the streets regarding their authority level in a given situation and these decisions are subject to review in court. Asserting your rights properly is good way to avoid arrest, but it is an even better way to avoid a conviction.

 

[gbran]

The cops certainly can't tell if you own guns by seeing your license plate, even if they call it in. Not sure about your drivers license. BTW, if you had said no to the search, they could not have gotten a warrant.