Graphic example of why guns don't cause homicide.

[hso]

States with restrictive gun laws compared to states with nothing more than Fed laws will have higher and lower homicide rates than each other and the non restrictive states. Just as high percentage of firearms ownership or carry permits (or permitless carry) are touted as beneficial in low crime states but have no effect in higher crime states with the same laws so there is correlation instead of causation, the same is seen in states with restrictive firearms law. Those restrictive states may have high homicide rates or low, again, correlation instead of causation.

Compare the two maps below for shall issue/permitless carry and murder rate. The 1.0-2.5 murders per 100,000 states happen to correspond to the permitless or shall issue states in New England and the upper midwest and west (ND, MN, ID, NE, UT, etc.), but not along the Mississippi. Conversely, restrictive states like California have higher homicide rates. You also finds states with no restrictions with rates of homicide in the same range or higher than California and states with significant restrictions that have even higher rates than California. More, if you look at homicide rates down to the community level you find higher rates within states and even within communities. Look in more detail and you find that California has higher rates of murder south of Sacramento and higher rates of suicide north of Sacramento.

Then look at the declining rate of homicides vs. increased ownership of firearms and increased shall issue/permitless carry.



Heck, in Virginia where the state just flipped from reasonably supportive of RKBA to threatening some of the most draconian restrictions on firearms owners the state has seen a decline in violent crime. The data shows violent crime fell for the second consecutive year, and VA has the fourth lowest violent crime rate in the nation – also for the second consecutive year. Virginia had the 25th largest decrease in the violent crime rate from 2017 to 2018, while holding its spot as the fourth safest state. Virginia is outpacing the nation in reducing violent crime; the national rate decreased 3.6% while Virginia’s decreased 5%. It isn’t just overall violent crime that has decreased in Virginia. The murder rate fell by 17.3%, and firearms-related homicides specifically fell by 13.8%. For all of the Bloomberg talking points Northam and his minions regurgitate, there were eight homicides with a rifle of any type in Virginia in 2018. There were 3.75 times more homicides with knives (30 total) than rifles of any type and about twice as many fatal assaults with hands, fists, or feet (15 total) than rifles of any type. Yet, because of politics, not percentages of homicide or violence, we see VA has become a hotspot for the restriction of firearms owners.

The reality is we can't say overall that "guns" are an issue one way or the other or that restrictions actually reduce homicides or that liberal laws on gun ownership and carry help reduce crime or homicides when we see so much variability in the actual data. Why are the permitless and shall issue New England states so low in homicide rates vs. California? Why are murder rates high in Chicago, but not the rest of IL? Why are murder rates higher in S. California than N. California? Here in TN, if we deduct Memphis from our population and homicide data the state drops into the 1.0-2.5/100,000 homicide group. We spend far too much effort on guns because it is overly simplistic and polarizing and can be played to the public when we should be looking at the more difficult and challenging culture and root cause of violence. Antis are not going to have success in reducing rates of homicide or violence focusing on guns any more than we will treating them as preventing violence on a national scale.

 

[Stephen Maize]

What are the green and blue codings?

 

[hso]

 

[Stephen Maize]

Hawaii is no issue and it’s murder rate is low.

 

[hso]

 

[hso]

Hawaii is no issue and it’s murder rate is low.

And NE, NH, ME are permitless and theirs are lower.

More, domestic violence in HI, NH, TN, MA, etc. for women is around 37% showing no influence from carry laws or gun ownership.

The point is if you're trying to address murder rates or violence rates then don't waste your time on restrictions on law abiding gun owner or thinking gun laws (liberal or restrictive) are going to make much difference, put that energy, and money, into looking into addressing the causes of violence and not the methods.

 

[Stephen Maize]

Alaska is constitutional carry and its murder rate is high

 

[Stephen Maize]

Missouri is constitutional carry and its murder rate is high

 

[sparkyv]

The point is if you're trying to address murder rates or violence rates then don't waste your time on restrictions on law abiding gun owner or thinking gun laws (liberal or restrictive) are going to make much difference, put that energy, and money, into looking into addressing the causes of violence and not the methods.

Of course this is rarely ever done, because we all know that the end-game is about confiscation and not making Americans safe.

 

[748]

Hmm can't help but notice the sales of guns in this country has been through the roof from about 2007 to 2016 and the number of constitutional carry states and states changing from probably won't issue to a regular citizen to shall issue has exploded and murders went down to spite the dire bs spewed by the antis.

 

[Obturation]

Illinois came along kicking and screaming but the only really dangerous area of the state (city of chicago/cook county) still has their own set of rules different from the entire rest of the state, they really don't get it . my friends brother lives in the inner city and was speechless when he saw some of our guns (live about 45 minutes from downtown).

 

[hso]

Alaska...Missouri is constitutional carry and its murder rate is high

THAT is the point, the homicide rates don't correlate consistently with restrictions or liberal laws on firearms.

We would need consistent data to make decisions that aren't based on feelings or assumptions yet we don't see that consistency. Recognizing what is actually the cause of homicides if we don't see that gun laws don't produce consistent results in either direction is how we'll get to lower homicide rates. Liberal carry regs don't help nor do restrictions so the answer isn't in how we regulate firearms.

 

[bdickens]

Alaska is constitutional carry and its murder rate is high

Alaska has a very low population. One murder disproportionately skews the percentage. Somewhere around 3/4 of a million people in the whole State. There's about EIGHT TIMES as many people in the Houston, TX metro area.

Each question on a 10 question test is 10%.
Each question on a 100 question test is 1%.

 

[jamesinalaska]

The rise and fall of one variable does not always equal the rise or fall of another variable. The direction of one valiable may have nothing AT ALL to do with the direction of another variable.

Restrictive gun laws cannot be show to prevent murder or show a decrease in violent crime because gun law and violent crime are not related to each other. One is not a fumction of the other.

Restrictions of booze, however, DOES ALWAYS correlate to a decrease of violence and assaults. Use of booze is directly responsible for mayhem of all types.

Tell that to your liberal friends and ask them to target the responsible parties.

 

[sparkyv]

Restrictive gun laws cannot be show to prevent murder or show a decrease in violent crime because gun law and violent crime are not related to each other. One is not a fumction of the other.

This is because the BGs don't follow the law. The restrictions only negatively impact the law abiding citizens.

 

[Rule3]

Alaska is constitutional carry and its murder rate is high

Now compare the rates of alcohol use , drug use, depression(lack of sunlight) brutal weather, cost of living and factor all those into the equation

 

[hso]

The VA UCR for 2018 is available and makes me wonder why the surge in interest in firearms restrictions since homicide rates have been falling since 2016.






Note the conspicuous absence of any weapon mentioned as a factor.

 

[JTHunter]

Missouri is constitutional carry and its murder rate is high

That is mainly because of the lunacy in St. Louis.

 

[Stephen Maize]

That is mainly because of the lunacy in St. Louis.

What do you mean?

 

[sparkyv]

The VA UCR for 2018 is available and makes me wonder why the surge in interest in firearms restrictions since homicide rates have been falling since 2016.

...the end-game is about confiscation and not making Americans safe.

 

[bassjam]

I completely agree with the first half of your statement. As to the second half....well, Prohibition wasn't exactly known as a peaceful time in US history.

 

[jamesinalaska]

Now compare the rates of alcohol use , drug use, depression(lack of sunlight) brutal weather, cost of living and factor all those into the equation

True: Alaska does have very high murder rates. But these are due to the high rates of alcoholism, depression, the general isolation of many, and thinly stretched policing..... not Right to Carry law.

Some years ago the good folks of Point Barrow voted to turn the town "dry" and ban the sale and importation of liquor. Dramatically, "overnight" even, the town changed: the hospital emptied out, the detox center emptied, and the town jail emptied. It was NOT a change of gun law that performed this miracle; it was a change in the availability of BOOZE.

 

[DocRock]

Where there is more crime, there will be a higher incidence of gun crime than where there is less crime.

Because criminals.

 

[Rule3]

True: Alaska does have very high murder rates. But these are due to the high rates of alcoholism, depression, the general isolation of many, and thinly stretched policing..... not Right to Carry law.

Some years ago the good folks of Point Barrow voted to turn the town "dry" and ban the sale and importation of liquor. Dramatically, "overnight" even, the town changed: the hospital emptied out, the detox center emptied, and the town jail emptied. It was NOT a change of gun law that performed this miracle; it was a change in the availability of BOOZE.

Which is what I was saying so I guess we are agreeing to agree??

I was replying to Mr Maize who stated "Alaska is constitutional carry and its murder rate is high"

So when you quote you need to include the whole post.

 

[JTHunter]

What do you mean?

Shootings in St. Louis are out of control. If it isn't blacks shooting up each others cars/houses, it is armed carjackings. Many of the shootings seem to have no reason for them to have even happened. The other day, an 18 mth. old was sleeping in its crib when some nut fired a single shot at the house that grazed the kid's back. They have even had recent shootings on an interstate highway !!
Then there is the embattled City Prosecutor, Kim Gardiner (the idiot that just filed a racism lawsuit against the City and the police dept.), a woman who isn't prosecuting about half of the shootings the police bring her. She claims that she won't take cases from certain cops for a variety of reasons, but won't tell the Chief what those reasons are!
Then there are judges like the one that let a perp out on bail after being convicted of an armed robbery but BEFORE he was sentenced. This perp, along with 2 accomplices, only 24 days later tried the same tactic of robbing an ATM technician while he worked on the machine. This time, the tech had a CCW and defended himself. The perp was killed, oddly enough, NOT by the tech but by one of his own gang !
And now the mayor of St. Louis, in defiance of state law, has ruled that city parks are to be GFZs despite the fact that some of the shootings happen in those parks !
What else would you expect from a bunch of dems/libs??