Gun and gear for Steel Challenge and USPSA- Stock Auto

[Jeff H]

So, other than some informal matches a few years ago, I haven't done much action pistol shooting and I'm looking to get into it, so this thread is about the gear. I'm only planning on shooting stock auto to keep costs reasonable so I'm looking for suggestions on what is popular and what is a waste of money.

Pistol- 9mm preferred since I have a bazillion pieces of brass. I currently have an SR9 with a bunch of magazines. It that even competitive or do I really need something better?

Sights- am I allowed to put a front night sight in or does it have to remain stock?

Holsters and belt- I have no clue.
Mag pouches- no clue.

Ammo- I assume I can load powder puff loads for steel since there is no power factor involved. Not so with USPSA...

Anything else I need to know besides practice, practice, practice?

 

[Doublehelix]

You'll be fine starting out with the SR9, but you should verify that it is on the list of "approved" Production guns over at USPSA.ORG. You will definitely be able to see what you like and what you don't with that gun, so save some money and start out with the SR9.

A good holster to start out with is one of the kydex holsters from someone like Blade-Tech or Comp-Tac (I prefer Blade-Tech personally).

For steel, you don't need mag pouches, but will need at least 5 mags, one for each string on a stage.

With USPSA, you will need pouches, probably at least 4 (and keep a 5th mag in your pocket for your first mag). Most people seem to go with the DAA pouches (Double Alpha), but there are many, many other brands that will work just fine.

If you shoot in the Production division, you are limited to 10 rounds per mag as an FYI.

Good luck!

 

[ATLDave]

Some further thoughts (from a USPSA guy with only a passing familiarity with SC):

• The equipment divisions are largely the same with USPSA and SC, although SC also has rimfire divisions.
  • There's no "stock" division.* There is a Production division. Production is the place where 9mm striker or DA/SA guns can be competitive. There are some changes that are allowed and some that are prohibited. Changing sights are generally allowed.
  • Production division is sometimes suggested as a good "entry" division, but it's actually one of the harder divisions to shoot in USPSA - the 10-round mag limit forces lots of reloading, and the minor power-factor scoring forces lots of aiming!
  • However, if you want to shoot 9mm ammo with iron sights, production (or single-stack for 1911's) is probably the place to play. Limited (which, contrary to what the name would suggest, is much less limited than production) lets you go SAO for trigger, put on a magwell, make various other changes that would be prohibited in production - but it recognizes major PF for people shooting 40-and-above caliber rounds, so 9mm limited is at a real disadvantage.
  • For USPSA, most production shooters want 5-6 mags on the belt.
• You can safely buy a velcro double belt (DAA and/or Comp-tac are very solid choices). Those will work with any of the major kinds of competition-suitable holsters and mag holders, so you can buy it without being locked into anything that might change.
• Similarly, most of the good/common gamer mag pouches (DAA and/or Ghost, for instance) will work with just about any double-stack mag. These are another thing you could buy a few of without fear that a subsequent gun change is going to instantly-obsolete your investment.
• SR9's (and Ruger's in general) don't get a lot of love in USPSA. There may or may not be good reasons for that. But you aren't going to be competitive out of the gate regardless of what gear you have. Go shoot a couple matches with that gun and magazines. It won't take long for you to start forming your own opinions and to learn from what others are doing/using.
• Speaking of not being competitive out of the gate, don't knock yourself out with "practice, practice, practice" before you go shoot. If you already know how to draw, handle, reload, and holster a gun, and are even marginally competent at hitting roughly where you are aiming, you know enough to go shoot a SC match, and almost enough to shoot USPSA (you be able to move while keeping the gun pointed downrange to shoot USPSA - that's the other skill it requires as a gateway competence).
  • I spent about 18 months from the time I learned USPSA/IPSC was a real thing I could really shoot to actually going and shooting a match. Most of that time was spent trying to be "good enough." Well, I showed up and earned a D classification out of the gate. I learned more in the first 6 weeks of shooting matches than I did in the prior 18 months. Don't wait until you are "good enough." You're probably "good enough" now to enjoy the match, and you'll probably never be "good enough" to be seriously competitive until after you shoot a bunch of matches. Don't put it off. Your practice will be vastly more effective after you play the game a little bit.

* Stock would imply that the point is to shoot the gun as it comes OOTB. Relatively few people do that after a year or so in.

 

[Zerodefect]

The only thing you need is a quality belt. Get a DAA with 4 pouches and a magnet on the 1st pouch.

For now, use your current holster on that belt, until you determine what your next pistol will be.

Doesn't matter, if what you have, is competitive or not. You won't be for a while. So just go shoot, have fun, don't get DQ'd. I only mention the belt, because a proper race belt makes starting off more fun, and more enjoyable.

USPSA Limited is the most fun for me. Limited 10 next.

Production, "stock", is my least favorite class. No magwells, so my pistols and mags, get chewed up. Pretty much everyone is running a boring 9mm. And there's less room for error. I recommend starting off shooting minor in limited. Then get a .40 to shoot major later on.

Limited is freestyle, so at least you can relax, and reload whenever YOU choose to.

Let your RO know that you're new, and go painfully slow for your first few matches. Your goal should be to get used to the game, not to be competitive. People will appreciate your restraint.

And leave your pistols cased up, and ask the RO where, and when you can load up, in the morning. That's the #1 way to get DQ'd. There's alot of extra silly safety rules in competition, because we aren't training with guns, we aren't going to war with guns, we're PLAYING with guns. That's a big difference.

 

[ATLDave]

Magnets are impermissible in some divisions... I wouldn't drop money on a purpose-built magazine-magnet until I was pretty sure I was going to stick in that division. Magnets really only help on a tiny percentage of stages in the divisions where they are allowed.

Otherwise, I agree with a lot of zero's post. Only people who think reloading a lot sounds like fun should plan to stick in production for the long haul. People who want to reload less but don't want to have to fool with 40 gun/ammo should look at carry optics - it's crazy how much the shooting population where I am has moved from Prod to CO (and PCC, but that's a whole 'nother discussion).

 

[waktasz]

Biggest advice is just to get out there and do it. After you meet a few people and see what guns they are using you can then make up your mind if you want to stick with the Ruger or not.

In Production can you replace the sights, do stippling, replace springs and/or guide rod, do a trigger job or even replace the trigger itself. What you can't do is add a magwell or thumbrest, or cut holes in the slide or anything like that.

 

[ATLDave]

In Production you can... do stippling.

Is stippling of the non-grip area now allowed? Are we done with the little drawing that shows where stippling/tape can and cannot be?

 

[waktasz]

21.4 Grips
Grip modifications such as, but not limited to,
undercutting/smoothing the trigger guard,
adding or removing finger grooves, or adding
stippling, grip tape, or checkering are allowed.
Replacement grip panels are allowed provided
they do not extend below the butt of the gun
to form a make-shift magwell.

 

[ATLDave]

But is adding tape or stippling to the frame, say forward of the trigger guard on the left side of the gun, a "grip modification"?

 

[waktasz]

The diagram with the allowable stippling area is gone from the rulebook as far as I can tell.

 

[alfsauve]

The latest USPSA magazine has the equipment surveys from the nationals. You might find it helpful.

 

[Zerodefect]

The DAA magnet unbolts from the mag pouch with a little allen screw.

We let people wear them in production, just don't use them. Not sure what bigger events allow.

I think stippling and such dropped off this year, and is allowed everywhere.

 

[ATLDave]

Yeah, but the magnet is not free. Easily added later if the OP wants to shoot a division that permits it and he feels it's desirable.

 

[Jeff H]

What is a magnet used for?

 

[ATLDave]

Magnets are useful for (the comparatively uncommon) USPSA stages where magazines are required to be "staged" somewhere other than your belt at the start of the stage. For instance, the stage briefing might say something like "unloaded gun and all magazines to be used on the stage must be located on the table." Then, when the buzzer sounds, you are on the clock to retrieve (and load) your gun, plus grab magazines and stuff them into your mag holders if you're going to move away from the table and need to reload. You might shoot half a dozen matches and have to do this between 0 and 2 times in total. It's uncommon, but not truly rare.

A magnet is nice because, rather than trying to insert the mag into a holder on the clock, you can just slap it on the magnet and take off. But magnets have their downsides, too. They're prohibited in some divisions, and they're always a magnet. Depending on its location on your belt, it has the possibility of sticking to a metal folding chair or a metal table or wall support. Adding additional thickness to the belt in front can make going prone (another fairly uncommon but not-unheard-of thing in USPSA) more uncomfortable.

Some people like them, some don't. Of those who like them, some take them on and off, some use them all the time. You may well end up liking and using one (I keep one at the back end of my row of mag pouches), but I wouldn't necessarily say that's one of the first pieces of gear to buy. Unless it sounds fun and interesting to you, in which case buy away!

ETA: This is the kind of stuff that you will learn/see in the first few matches you shoot. Everything is easier to figure out once you've shot a match or two, so do that sooner than later!

 

[waktasz]

For Limited division they are very useful.

 

[egd]

A lot of good advice for uspsa but since op also asked for steel challenge I'll give a little info about what he needs to buy for that. Nothing other than maybe a gun bag/case for the pistol. He has "a bunch" of mags and he can just lay them on the barrel/table so he doesn't have to have mag pouches. He can keep his gun in the bag/case just like the rimfire guys and uncase when the ro tells him to.

 

[thomas15]

I would highly recommend that you get a standoff holster. You need a little bit of space between your body and the gun. In SC it is all about speed and a half second means something.

As others have said you do not need mag pouches. 5 mags are good to have 6 if you like an extra for insurance.

OK I do not like to recommend anything, I'm not on sales retainer for any company in the firearms industry. Having said that....

Your standoff holster should be mounted on a stiff 2 pc competition belt. If you are looking for inexpensive (ha ha) the lest expensive is the shooters connection ultimate competition belt. From my perspective for production shooters it seems like the Red Hill Tactical competition holster is the most popular. I think you will need in addition to the holster and the belt a hanger to attach the holster to the belt. Look at something like the Ben Stoeger DOH Boss hanger. So consider calling shooters connection and discussing this with them. They are good people and understand the needs of competition shooters.

I have 2 full years in steel challenge and I'm an A shooter in Optical Sight Revolver and B in Iron Sight revolver, Open Rimfire Pistol and Open Rimfire rifle. Not an expert by any means. I shot my first match this past weekend in carry optics class using a production rig that has not seen much action. Mine is a DAA pro belt and the DAA PDR Pro II holster. I have about $140 in this rig. I do all of my revolver shooting with a race holster so using a production holster is a big difference. Why? Because you really have to lift the muzzle past the top of the holster before you can start swinging the gun up, which you can do much earlier with a race holster. For that reason I think the Red Hill holster is a better choice than the DAA because the Red Hill is cut lower allowing you to swing the gun earlier. But not enough for me to ditch the excellent DAA PDR holster.

You can use any post and notch sight for production. You cannot use a compensator but there is no power factor in steel challenge so as long as it cycles the slide use the softest load that is accurate. A failure to feed or jam is death in SCSA.

You are correct about practice X3. I use a shot timer with par time feature for dry fire. I start every dry fire session with about 25-30 draws to the first target. Your goal will better than 1.3 seconds from surrender position to first target so you absolutely must work towards getting a quick sight picture. Steel Challenge is great fun and really gets you to put a fine point on your skills. There are only 8 stages in SCSA but some guys live for this sport so competition is at times stiff. It looks easy and in theory it is but first time you shoot a match take a lot of ammo. It is not uncommon for a first time shooter to run out of ammo.

If I can be of any help fell free to ask!

ON EDIT.....

He can keep his gun in the bag/case just like the rimfire guys and uncase when the ro tells him to.

^^This is good advice from egd. Keep you gun in a case until it is your turn. Some guys keep theirs in holsters but I find this to be a giant pain the in * Competitors are required to paint the targets so keeping your gun in a case, keeps paint off it. Also, take a old pair of work gloves with you in case you want to help tear down after the match, the targets will be wet and messy.

One other thing. I don't know anything about the SR9 but I see it has a 4.2" barrel? Something a little longer would be better but for now I think it should work. My production gun, the one I turned into a carry optics gun for SCSA is a G17 so based on that I think your gun will be fine for now. As others have said it is a good idea to shoot a few matches to see where your interests are and what tackle you want.

In my humble opinion the lest expensive good mag pouches (for USPSA) are the ones made by Ghost. That is what I have but if I had it to do all over again I would spend a little more and get the DAA RACER mag pouches.

 

[Jeff H]

Thanks for all of your comments guys. Keep them coming if you have more advice. Especially everyone who commented about belts and holsters/mag pouches. Much appreciated.

I would highly recommend that you get a standoff holster. You need a little bit of space between your body and the gun. In SC it is all about speed and a half second means something.

As others have said you do not need mag pouches. 5 mags are good to have 6 if you like an extra for insurance.


One other thing. I don't know anything about the SR9 but I see it has a 4.2" barrel? Something a little longer would be better but for now I think it should work. My production gun, the one I turned into a carry optics gun for SCSA is a G17 so based on that I think your gun will be fine for now. As others have said it is a good idea to shoot a few matches to see where your interests are and what tackle you want.

I have 6 mags for the SR9. Like I said earlier, I dabbled in steel a few years ago so I did buy some mags to compete. I just haven't done anything with this in at least 3-4 years.

You're point about barrel length is a good one. I have a couple of 1911s I could use and I think I have 10 mags or so (good ones too mostly Wilson, CMC and Sig), but I have this weird attachment to my 45 brass. Everyone I loose feels like I care about it way more than I should. maybe I should just buy 5K brass and get over it. hard to do though when each piece I find on the ground is like you just found some gold. <-- I'm sure the reloaders here can relate.

 

[waktasz]

Nope, can't relate. I buy once fired brass every winter and leave it where it lands 90% of the time. Steel you will get most of your brass back but in USPSA I can't be bothered to crawl around the stages all day looking for nickels.

 

[thomas15]

You're point about barrel length is a good one. I have a couple of 1911s I could use and I think I have 10 mags or so (good ones too mostly Wilson, CMC and Sig), but I have this weird attachment to my 45 brass. Everyone I loose feels like I care about it way more than I should. maybe I should just buy 5K brass and get over it. hard to do though when each piece I find on the ground is like you just found some gold. <-- I'm sure the reloaders here can relate.

Yes. Of course the 1911 would put you in single stack. I agree with you on the 45 brass. I personally have about 50,000 pcs of 9mm brass and maybe 4 or 5 thousand 45. Leaving 9mm on the ground is easy, 45 acp is hard.

If you just want to shoot a little and have fun pick a gun and go. But if your thinking about pushing yourself hard then go with your 9mm SR9 shoot the snot out of that gun. Then after a while see what happens. If it starts to get into your blood then consider shooting 2 guns.

I don't want to make it sound like I've arrived but in 2018 I shot 11k rounds 9mm almost all from a revolver and most at steel. And there is a lot of room for improvement. Good thing for me is I get all of my brass back--moon clips baby!

 

[DukeConnor]

I quickly determined that it didn't matter what gear I had, I was going to get crushed by experienced gamers no matter what I carried.

It is a humbling experience.

 

[Jeff H]

I don't want to make it sound like I've arrived but in 2018 I shot 11k rounds 9mm almost all from a revolver and most at steel. And there is a lot of room for improvement. Good thing for me is I get all of my brass back--moon clips baby!

What revolver do you use?

I love shooting my revolvers, but reloading with speed loaders isn't very practical.

 

[thomas15]

What revolver do you use?

Glad you asked.

For Steel Challenge Optical and ICORE Open I use a S&W 929 (9mm). This gun has a C-MORE RTS2 (8MOA) Allchin mini mount, Hogue Big Butt grips and Hogue thumb latch. The Action work was done by Pinnacle High Performance. I use Revolver Supply co .040 moons and a BMT mooner tool.

For Steel Challenge Iron sight, USPSA revolver and ICORE Limited I use another 929 set up the same except I have rear iron sight made by Bowen and the front sight Pinnacle milled out the stock blade and drilled for fiber optic. Revolver Supply .035 moons for this one.

 

[ATLDave]

Jeff, note that for USPSA, shooting revolver basically requires an 8-shot moonclip fed gun to be relevant at all. thomas15 and mcb here are both wheelgunners here (and I have dabbled just enough to have a classification in Revolver division for USPSA), but revolver in USPSA is a tough road. There are very few people shooting it in most areas, so you're really forced to look at overall results (not technically a thing, as USPSA declares that shooters only compete within their own equipment division) and/or focus solely on classification as a way of measuring progress. And it is a lot of work, and requires gear that is specialized (see, again, 8-shot moonclip guns).

It's a major undertaking - not something where you haul out your police-trade-in Model 10 and go racing. I mean, you can do that - it's not against the rules. But it will be a frustrating experience if you have any competitive impulse at all.