Gun Safe Base / Platform Question

[Grislic]

Is it advisable to place something between a safe and a concrete floor? It seems like it would be good to have it up off of the floor in the event there was standing water; and also to make it easier to see into.

How would fire and burglary resistance be affected if a standard size safe were placed on a 6" high wood or metal base with the safe bolted through the base to the floor? The base would cover the perimeter of the area under the safe so that the bolts were not visible.

Would making a base out of metal be worth the extra time and expense?

 

[EHCRain10]

I would use a metal base made from C channel or 4x6 box.

 

[a1abdj]

If I am bolting a safe down I use either 3/4" stall mat, or 3/4" plywood with some plastic sheet. In this case, you want the safe as close to the floor as possible while keeping the steel and concrete apart.

If you're not bolting the safe, it wouldn't matter. You can bolt the safe to an elevated base, but short of using steel, it won't be nearly as secure.

Platform material also doesn't matter. Wood, steel, or concrete/masonry would all be suitable. You should still use a barrier material if using concrete or brick for your platform.

 

[oneounceload]

Mine sits on a base of 4x4 wood and plywood with a small piece of indoor/outdoor carpeting to keep scratches down. If you bolt it to the wall, especially into a corner, you should be fine for 99% of the smash and grab types

 

[Grislic]

a1abdj,
Do you have any problem drilling through the stall mats? I assume these are the hard rubber type sold at farm stores?

Do you lay the mat down, place the safe, then drill from the inside of the safe? Or mark the holes and move the safe before drilling?

 

[a1abdj]

We cut the mat (easier said than done) with a sawsall chucked with a hacksaw blade. Place the mat where you want the safe and set the safe on top of it.

We drill from inside the safe, but we cheat. We use a regular drill bit slightly larger than the hole going into the concrete to remove the rubber. Then we use the hammer drill with a masonry bit for our anchor holes.

Most farm stores will sell the stall mat, but don't let its looks fool you. It is very heavy, and very stubborn. It is worth it in the long run though, because it will last forever.

 

[GunsAmerica Fan]

6" high opens the possiblity of using a floor jack under the safe to break the bolts. If you are using regular soft bolts from the hardware store it wouldn't be difficult to just tear them.

The best advice for standing water is gutters with spouts that take water away from the house. And use a goldenrod in the safe if you are worried about condensation in a damp basement.

 

[MAKster]

I bought an inexpensive rubber floor mat from Home Depot. The safe is still bolted to the floor but the mat is just enough to insulate the safe from the cold concrete floor. If a pipe leaks and my basement floods it won't help, but as others have said elevating it on a wood base makes it less secure so its a trade off. I guess the best idea would be to build an elevated concrete platform in your basement but that is beyond the skills or money of most people.

 

[Vonderek]

just enough to insulate the safe from the cold concrete floor

I'm not following you...why is it a concern to keep the safe off the cold concrete?

In a previous home I had a safe bolted to the floor of a room that had been converted from part of the garage. There was no AC in that room so it was always damp and musty. I kept a dehumidifier running in the room and loaded the safe with dessicant bags. I never had a problem with rust on any guns but eventually moved the safe into an interior room that had better climate control. It was a pain to have to empty the dehumidifier every day and impossible to do so if I was out of town. It was also a pain to have to reactivate the dessicant regularly.

I personally wouldn't trust bolting a safe to a floor with any material between the safe and floor. I think it is creating an unnecessary weak link in your security. If you are concerned about flooding in a basement I would be more inclined to sandbag the perimeter of the safe instead of elevating it.

 

[a1abdj]

Safes get rusty sitting on a floor because of the condensation caused by placing metal against masonry.

In a commercial setting, this is usually of little concern, although many commercial safes remain elevated on blocks.

In a residential setting it's more of a concern for two reasons. The first being that you may end up moving your safe at some point, and a rusty bottom makes for a messy installation, especially on carpet. The second being that the 1/10" sheet metal on many gun safes can rust through if there is enough of a moisture problem.

Placing a vapor barrier between the floor and the safe solves most of this problem.

 

[CoRoMo]

This has been an idea of mine for some time. I haven't built it yet, but I have the material and skill to do so. I'm going to build a steel platform that raises the safe off of the basement floor.

I have access to more 3.5"x3.5"x1/4" steel angle than I can ever deal with. It is an excess material that becomes scrap in my industry, and I have a metric pant-load of it in 20' lengths. Knowing very well how to weld, I plan to weld together a frame & raised platform using this 1/4" thick steel angle. Over the years, I've built all kinds of hefty things out of this material.

This thing will weigh plenty by itself, as I have a tendency to always overbuild what I make. I'll then anchor the platform into the concrete floor of the basement (actually linoleum flooring covering the concrete floor), using as massive of concrete anchors as I can find. Then bolting the safe onto this using the largest carriage bolts that will do.

It will raise the safe up off the floor, to a better access height and mitigate flood/standing water issues. Fastening the safe to two walls is also going to help keep it where it is supposed to be, but the only thing I haven't fully figured out is... how to get this 700lb safe up onto my platform.

 

[SafeGuy]

I would recommend going with a couple of large washers around the bolts to keep some air under the safe. A small gap is all it takes. If you think you'll end up with water in the area, just seal the area where the anchor bolts come through the safe. At that point, the water will have to come high enough to come in over the bottom of the door frame before you would have to worry about it. As was pointed out, the higher you place the safe off the floor, the more access there would be to use a sawzall to cut the anchor bolts.

Another common mistake is not anchoring a safe where the back is flat against the wall. If you are anchoring a safe in a garage, for example, notch any baseboard moulding to eliminate a gap behind the safe. Otherwise, a nylon strap can be slid behind the safe and hooked to a pick-up, then it's bye-bye safe.

 

[SafeGuy]

This has been an idea of mine for some time. I haven't built it yet, but I have the material and skill to do so. I'm going to build a steel platform that raises the safe off of the basement floor.

I have access to more 3.5"x3.5"x1/4" steel angle than I can ever deal with. It is an excess material that becomes scrap in my industry, and I have a metric pant-load of it in 20' lengths. Knowing very well how to weld, I plan to weld together a frame & raised platform using this 1/4" thick steel angle. Over the years, I've built all kinds of hefty things out of this material.

This thing will weigh plenty by itself, as I have a tendency to always overbuild what I make. I'll then anchor the platform into the concrete floor of the basement (actually linoleum flooring covering the concrete floor), using as massive of concrete anchors as I can find. Then bolting the safe onto this using the largest carriage bolts that will do.

It will raise the safe up off the floor, to a better access height and mitigate flood/standing water issues. Fastening the safe to two walls is also going to help keep it where it is supposed to be, but the only thing I haven't fully figured out is... how to get this 700lb safe up onto my platform.

That's easy. Use a pallet jack or a two wheel dolly. If using a dolly, tilt the safe back toward you and run it to the platform. Place a piece of 1" schedule 40 PVC on the platform edge, and let the safe down at an angle onto it. Then you can just push it up and over the PVC to center it on the platform.

 

[Habeed]

Is a gun safe designed to stop a determined burglar with tools, or to stop a casual intruder or your kids from grabbing a loaded gun?

It seems to me that paying for insurance on the guns might be cheaper than buying a safe adequate to stop a burglar armed with a cutting torch, pickup truck, or shaped charges.

 

[SafeGuy]

Insurance won't help you when you lose guns you would never sell for sentimenal reasons. Then there is the safety factor of keeping your guns secured.

 

[CoRoMo]

...buying a safe adequate to stop a burglar armed with ... shaped charges.

Okay, who can afford that?!!?



Lifting my safe onto a platform:

Use a pallet jack or a two wheel dolly.

That's much better an idea than what I was thinking (three or four bottle jacks). But I don't have access to a pallet jack. What if I want to build this platform like... two feet high?

 

[esheato]

Oops....mine is bolted directly to the garage floor. I didn't even think about a vapor barrier.

I'll report in two years when we move if there is rust.

Ed

 

[SafeGuy]

Oops....mine is bolted directly to the garage floor. I didn't even think about a vapor barrier.

I'll report in two years when we move if there is rust.

Ed

All you'll end up with is some surface scale. No big deal.

 

[talonsales]

Bases for Gun Safes

Talon Industries of Commerce Township, Michigan, produces gun safe bases of welded steel on casters that are powder coated for rust protection. A typical unit for a 27" x 23" safe is in the neighborhood of $145.00 plus s & h. They have been advertised in the NRA's "Shooting Illustrated" magazine (see Nov & Dec 2009 issues and Jan 2010 issue). Free quotes available @ [email protected] or by calling 248-360-8280.

 

[tominct]

If I wanted to do that, I'd form and pour a concrete pad just a bit lager than the footprint of the safe. Drill the existing concrete floor with some sort of anchoring, since new concrete doesn't bond to old. Epoxy in some rebar pins, or use some expansion bolts standing proud with washers.
I'd install J-bolts in the wet concrete to bolt the safe to. Keep the bolts aligned with a piece of plywood. Use the plywood as your drilling template on your safe.

And use some kind of rubberized, self-stick flashing (like Vycor) on the concrete to provide a separation membrane beneath the safe. Concrete releases water for many months, it wicks moisture, and the alkalis in it aren't good for metals in contact with it.