Gun shop and range idiocy

[Harriw]

I like these threads... They're entertaining, and still serve as an "educational reminder" of sorts. I'm relatively new to shooting (compared to many of you), but realized I actually have a story!

Our local trap/skeet club has 4 skeet fields arranged adjacent to each other such that the "firing line" is one continuous line across all 4 fields (i.e. the cinder-block building that serves as the low house for field 1 also serves as the high house for field 2, etc. A wooden fence further separates each field, so you aren't distracted by what's going on in the field next to you. I suspect this is a fairly standard layout, but don't really know personally.

Anyway, there were only 2 of us on my field and we were finishing up our round. I stepped up to station 8-high, loaded a shell, went through my swing, found my hold-point just off the corner of the high house, finger on trigger, and was about to call "pull..." Just before I called for the bird, somebody on the adjacent field walked out from behind the high-house (their low house) across the firing line and started picking up empty shells that had been thrown 5-10 feet across the line from their station 7. Keep in mind we were at station 8... meaning we'd been shooting for a good 10-15 minutes now (going through stations 1-7 at a fairly brisk pace with only 2 shooters)... There was no mistaking that this was a live range, and people were shooting on this field.

Skeet fields work slightly differently than your typical rifle/pistol range with shooting benches, etc. for obvious reasons. But it's an obvious rule to not go beyond the firing line - that is, don't walk beyond the line drawn between the two houses if ANY field is in use, not just yours. If you do, you're in the field of fire from the fields to your right and/or left. Shells ejected at station 7 are supposed to be left where they lay. If you REALLY want those shells, wait until the entire range is cold (not just your field) and go pick them up then.

Realistically, a typical station 8 shot is taken after the bird travels a short ways and not while aiming just off the corner of the house where my initial hold was... But it was incredibly disconcerting to see a person walk into my sight picture as I was about to shoot... I immediately pointed the muzzle at the ground and put the safety on, while my squad-mate and I discussed whether we were really seeing what we thought we were seeing. I'm ashamed to admit I was so surprised that it took me a few seconds to realize I should eject the shell I'd just chambered.

Being so new to shooting (and to this club) at the time, I didn't feel comfortable going around to their field to say something (and I think to a certain extent I was taking ques from the much-more-senior member I was shooting with). But in hindsight I really should have said something to them regardless. Instead, we just waited them out patiently. I commend all of you who DID say something... Confrontation isn't easy, but the stupid mistakes described in this thread NEED to be addressed. Otherwise these actions continue and somebody gets hurt.

 

[beeenbag]

It's not so much I'm Amazed at this. I am surrounded by politics state and local every day due to my job. Being involved and fighting in politics every day is to stare into a dark hole with little relief. so I created this post as an escape and way to laugh at something everyone in the gun community shares, seeing stupidity or failures revolving around one of our favorite hobbies.

And this thread is much appreciated. These and gun store dummy type threads are my favorite “read myself to sleep” threads. I’ve read all the ones I can turn up with the search function myself.

 

[Old Dog]

Unfortunately, I can't really enjoy this sort of thread (no disrespect intended to the OP or those who do) because lately they serve to remind me all too well of the many idiot gun owners and shooters living around me who so ably tarnish our cause by their moronic antics, giving the collective group of responsible gun owners and shooters a bad name. We're talking about the people who get their stupid gun stories reported in the media with heinous, often tragic negligent discharges, those who don't bother to learn the laws associated with gun ownership and its use, those get our public lands closed to shooting because they leave them trashed after every visit, those who can't understand that every time they represent themselves to others in public as gun-owners, they represent all of us.

Sorry, but I'm having trouble finding humor in irresponsible gun store and range idiocy today. Maybe it's because I witnessed some egregious behavior recently by an open-carry dude when he was confronted in a store by another (clearly anti-gun) person. The guy had the opportunity to calmly and rationally educate about the legality of open carry in this state, but chose instead to act like a total ass-clown (plus, I think the guy had had more than a couple cocktails prior to his shopping expedition, which seemed pretty evident) to the point where I was truly embarrassed for him.

Confrontation isn't easy, but the stupid mistakes described in this thread NEED to be addressed. Otherwise these actions continue and somebody gets hurt.

Truth. We have a duty to police our own, but more so, to educate and mentor new or inexperienced gun owners and shooters.

 

[Old Stumpy]

Half of the dummies at gun shops I’ve experienced are the owners. Fudds stuck in their old ways making fact up as they go.

Certainly no bias or ageism or arrogance in this assessment.

The majority of dipsticks that I have witnessed at gun shops are the twits who cock and snap new guns unless you tell then not to.
A lot of those "Fudds" that you mention have many years of knowledge and experience that you will never possess.
Certainly you don't end up owning a successful gun shop if you are don't know about guns.

 

[Old Dog]

^^ Yep. Most of the "old" owners of the gun shops I know didn't learn their gun-handling skills from video games and actually picked up their experience with firearms from shooting them, hunting with them, maintaining them, repairing them, reloading for them ...

I see far more dummies at gun shops who are guys barely out of their teens or millenials who are finally getting around to checking out the gun scene, but with knowledge gained only from movies or what they've learned from the mainstream media ...

 

[Old Stumpy]

I was hunting on the Federal Refuge near hear back in the late70's with a few buddies. One of them shot a nice deer and dropped it in its tracks. He was shooting a Remington 742 Semi Auto Rifle. After he got down out of his tree stand, he decided to take a few pictures of his dead deer. after a few of the deer laying on the ground, he propped the deer's head on a log and laid his rifle across the antlers with a tine sticking through the trigger guard. He backed up and took a picture and the "dead" deer got up and ran! This was probably 10-15 minutes after being shot and left a huge pile of blood on the ground. AS the deer ran off, the remaining rounds got fired as the gun bounced on the antlers. Luckily no one was hit and we trailed the deer about a 100 yards where we found it stone cold dead with the rifle still hanging from the antlers. His scope got ruined but everything turned out ok. None of us believed the story until he got the pictures developed. He got scolded pretty good for his brain fart, and his only reply was he had put the safety on before putting the rifle across the antlers. Never once thought about unloading his gun. Since no one got hurt, it is a funny story but a deer running with a gun in his antlers could have been bad news for someone.

I recall a grainy old home movie shot by hunters after shooting a moose in a state near the Canadian border.
The intrepid hunter straddled the moose and grasped both antlers to hold the head up for the trophy photo.
Well, the moose decided that he was still alive, and rapidly got up and ran off into the bush with the intrepid hunter riding on his back and holding on to those antlers for dear life.
From moose hunter to moose jockey in a few minutes.

 

[herrwalther]

Just a few days ago I picked up some #4 buckshot. As I was paying, an old guy walks into the store and asks if they have an unused Colt Python with 6 in barrel and perfect bluing. He saw the one used on Walking Dead and wanted a brand new one. I commented to the clerk "Isn't that like asking what color you want your unicorn to be?"

 

[Old Stumpy]

I used to shake my head at a lot of the wannabe hunters who visited the Camillus Gun Club during public sight in days. While I saw a few safety violations, there was plenty of ignorance if not downright stupidity. People who didn't know how to shoot at all; others who didn't know how their firearm worked (e.g., couldn't open the action on their pump action slug gun). Occasionally someone would show up with the wrong ammo. Lots of scopes improperly installed: too far forward, too far to the rear, canted, loose mounts or rings. We spent a lot of time on basics.

The one that really left me shaking my head though was the guy with the newly installed scope who refused to start by getting on paper at 25 yards. Seems to have happened almost every time I volunteered on the range. Straight to the 100 yard line. By the time they finally got on paper (if they ever did), they didn't have enough ammo left to zero the scope.

Sounds very familiar. Especially the sighting in antics. They had a scope mounted that wasn't even bore-sighted and figured that they could save ammo if they just fired a few round at 100 yards. Since they usually don't understand what they are doing, and haven't even got a starting point, they just blow through all their ammo and go home.

 

[Old Stumpy]

Just a few days ago I picked up some #4 buckshot. As I was paying, an old guy walks into the store and asks if they have an unused Colt Python with 6 in barrel and perfect bluing. He saw the one used on Walking Dead and wanted a brand new one. I commented to the clerk "Isn't that like asking what color you want your unicorn to be?"

Well, in fairness, lack of knowledge about the availability of a certain revolver is a far cry from stupid gun handling. He probably had no idea what they were worth or how rare that mint specimens are.

 

[herrwalther]

Well, in fairness, lack of knowledge about the availability of a certain revolver is a far cry from stupid gun handling. He probably had no idea what they were worth or how rare that mint specimens are.

Possibly. It stood out in my head since it was so recent. So here is another, older story.

I bought my first firearm, a handgun, on my 21st birthday in VT. VT, being a permit-less carry state, was very easy to buy a firearm because of this. After buying my first I was back in that shop probably once a week. Either getting ammo, off the rack holster, something. One day I watched a guy come through the door, bought a Glock (19?), ammo, and a holster. Loaded it up, pulled the slide, TWIRLED it around his finger on the trigger guard, before sliding it in his new holster on his hip. Meanwhile I was watching from behind a Liberty safe.

 

[Old Stumpy]

I guess that the dumbest stunt that I ever witnessed was a guy with a Colt SAA who was shooting at the line of an outdoor range.
They called a cease-fire to change targets, but he still had a partially loaded cylinder. Rather than saying anything, he just dropped the hammer on a loaded round with his thumb and set the revolver down on the bench.
He then sauntered off to replace his targets.
Fortunately he and I were at the extreme right hand end of shooting positions and there was a side berm on the right.
I reached over and pivoted the barrel 45 degrees to the right without picking the revolver up.
When he got back I told him that he should have unloaded the revolver after alerting the range officer.
He could have cared less.

 

[Barny]

I showed one boy who worked at the local gun shop how to insert a magazine plug in a 870 for a customer when I was probably 18 years old. I am 26 years old and he still won't help me till this day. Likely ten years my elder...

 

[Old Stumpy]

I showed one boy who worked at the local gun shop how to insert a magazine plug in a 870 for a customer when I was probably 18 years old. I am 26 years old and he still won't help me till this day. Likely ten years my elder...

Sadly there seem to be a number of people employed in gun shops who really don't know much about guns. Certainly not all of them fortunately, but some.
I recall one guy that was working at a larger general hunting, fishing, camping, archery, clothing, and gun outlet who consistently came up with dumb answers to requests for assistance.
One time I wanted to buy a pound of Alliant 2400 powder and he trundled off to find it since they didn't keep powder up front.
He returned to tell me that they didn't stock it because nobody uses it any more and that it was obsolete!??
Another time I asked him to open a box of reloading bullets by slitting the scotch tape holding it closed because I was not certain what the nose profile was. All he had to do was use a piece of tape to reclose it.
He informed me that it was against store rules and was also illegal!??
He lasted for a while so I assume that he must have been the owner's idiot nephew.
The store lasted for quite a while too, but when Cabelas came to town they went out of business.
I miss the store...

 

[entropy]

Well, in fairness, lack of knowledge about the availability of a certain revolver is a far cry from stupid gun handling. He probably had no idea what they were worth or how rare that mint specimens are.

Ironically, because of that show. They weren't cheap before it, but the show sent them, and all the other 'snake' guns, through the roof. Another ironic thing is the gun in the show was a stainless one. Thanks, Rick Grimes, thanks a lot.

 

[Jessesky]

Certainly no bias or ageism or arrogance in this assessment.

The majority of dipsticks that I have witnessed at gun shops are the twits who cock and snap new guns unless you tell then not to.
A lot of those "Fudds" that you mention have many years of knowledge and experience that you will never possess.
Certainly you don't end up owning a successful gun shop if you are don't know about guns.

Listen, I appreciate experience, wiseness, knowledge, and age. By no means do I intend to sound arrogant or ageist. I’m not even a fan of the plastic fantastics or tacticool guns. But my experience certainly has led me to meet quite a few owners who may know a lot, but certainly make stuff up as they go and definitely are fudds.

It may be so that the majority of dipsticks are the young guys who don’t know guns, but the veteran owners are the ones I’m making a point of scrutinizing. Especially after some of the ridiculous things I’ve heard with so many years under their belt.

I don’t think there is any ageism or arrogance in my assessment. Most of what I have learned is from other wise people who were twice my age. But they knew their stuff to their core. Which I appreciated.

 

[sequins]

I think all these stories are quite entertaining, and they happened (or didn't) all the same regardless of whether its posted here for my amusement, so it seems like a net benefit to post & laugh.

It's also important to take safety seriously. If you care about guns & gun rights you care about safety, and that means all of us responsible gun owners have the obligation of effectively educating and policing ourselves and those around us. I want to emphasize "effectively" because yelling at someone for a safety violation is foolhardy.

Sure, you need to stop an unsafe situation, but how many of you hot heads give a darn what someone shouting at you says? If anything you'll scare people off or inspire them to be stubborn in their ways, and that's if you achieve anything at all. I find fault with the malice directed at the ignorant offenders in these stories. I only know what I know because someone politely taught me so please use kindness when addressing others regarding firearms safety. It's not like you got 'em or anything, you're supposed to be helping them out.

Now let's carry on with the good-natured remedial lesson in firearms safety.

 

[Old Stumpy]

Listen, I appreciate experience, wiseness, knowledge, and age. By no means do I intend to sound arrogant or ageist. I’m not even a fan of the plastic fantastics or tacticool guns. But my experience certainly has led me to meet quite a few owners who may know a lot, but certainly make stuff up as they go and definitely are fudds.

It may be so that the majority of dipsticks are the young guys who don’t know guns, but the veteran owners are the ones I’m making a point of scrutinizing. Especially after some of the ridiculous things I’ve heard with so many years under their belt.

I don’t think there is any ageism or arrogance in my assessment. Most of what I have learned is from other wise people who were twice my age. But they knew their stuff to their core. Which I appreciated.

Must be where you live. I have never encountered an owner of a gun shop who made stuff up or didn't know his stuff. I have encountered staff at shops who knew very little about firearms and some who were just downright rude.

I have even been into a Bass Pro location where the guy behind the counter would not even look up from his paperwork to show me a gun. Needless to say I have never bought a gun there.

To me a Fudd is usually someone who owns only bolt action hunting rifles and pump shotguns for hunting and can't fathom why anyone would ever want to own anything else.

 

[mdThanatos]

I went to a gun store while on vacation and inquired about rentals for their indoor range. The clerk said I had to have a second person with me in order to rent. The clerk then tells me the price for the rental package which was 2 targets, 1 pistol, and 1 box of ammo would be $60, all for 2 people to share. I know it's their store and their policy but seems rather dumb to me.

 

[Old Stumpy]

I went to a gun store while on vacation and inquired about rentals for their indoor range. The clerk said I had to have a second person with me in order to rent. The clerk then tells me the price for the rental package which was 2 targets, 1 pistol, and 1 box of ammo would be $60, all for 2 people to share. I know it's their store and their policy but seems rather dumb to me.

It is ridiculous. But, they have competition, I'm sure.

 

[Harriw]

I went to a gun store while on vacation and inquired about rentals for their indoor range. The clerk said I had to have a second person with me in order to rent. The clerk then tells me the price for the rental package which was 2 targets, 1 pistol, and 1 box of ammo would be $60, all for 2 people to share. I know it's their store and their policy but seems rather dumb to me.

I was perplexed by these policies as well - seemed pretty pointless to me to so I asked around. As I understand it, they're trying to prevent "suicides by gun rental." The theory is if you're planning on renting a gun and offing yourself with it, you likely won't bring a friend along to watch. I can't imagine the "suicide by rental" is very common, but it has happened. Around here, most ranges waive that requirement for pistol permit holders.

 

[Old Stumpy]

Sorry, but I'm having trouble finding humor in irresponsible gun store and range idiocy today. Maybe it's because I witnessed some egregious behavior recently by an open-carry dude when he was confronted in a store by another (clearly anti-gun) person. The guy had the opportunity to calmly and rationally educate about the legality of open carry in this state, but chose instead to act like a total ass-clown (plus, I think the guy had had more than a couple cocktails prior to his shopping expedition, which seemed pretty evident) to the point where I was truly embarrassed for him.

Lucky for him that the store chose not to make an issue of the situation. Open carry may be legal but the store has the ultimate right to allow you to remain on their private property or order you to leave. Just as they have the right to allow any person to stay or order them to leave. They don't need a reason.
If police had been called his public intoxication might well have been an issue and a pretext to disarm him and even arrest him.

 

[Billyboy92365]

Ironically, because of that show. They weren't cheap before it, but the show sent them, and all the other 'snake' guns, through the roof. Another ironic thing is the gun in the show was a stainless one. Thanks, Rick Grimes, thanks a lot.

I actually have to concur with this. Even things that look remotely like Colt snake guns have shot up in value. My exe-brother-in-law owned an Arminius Titan Tiger as far as I could tell by the design. There was no name on the gun and I only know the brand thanks to a medallion in the cast pot metal frame. From the side it looked to the untrained eye like a Colt Python with a 6' barrel. Doing due diligence I find out it's a SNS made in Germany in the 1970s and cost about $150 max. Find one in my local gunshop, likely the same damn revolver he owned, selling for $300. Basically any gun that can hold a similar appearance to a Colt Python has skyrocketed in value due to naivete and a fandom willing to do anything they can to get their hands on something for their collections/costumes. Kinda a similar problem the Model 29 had after Dirty Harry.
Trouble is I'm not sure if I can call this totally bad as it is often movies that get people into the firearms community. I know that was the case with me, T2 and the 1887 10 GA will always hold a special place in my heart.

 

[Billyboy92365]

Must be where you live. I have never encountered an owner of a gun shop who made stuff up or didn't know his stuff. I have encountered staff at shops who knew very little about firearms and some who were just downright rude.

I have even been into a Bass Pro location where the guy behind the counter would not even look up from his paperwork to show me a gun. Needless to say I have never bought a gun there.

To me a Fudd is usually someone who owns only bolt action hunting rifles and pump shotguns for hunting and can't fathom why anyone would ever want to own anything else.

To this I just say I am a Fudd in the sense of the first half of your definition. After time in the service, I personally do not care to own AK or AR platforms. I think perhaps the 2 exceptions to the rule would be an AR-10 reproduction or an M1A1. That being said though, my preference in weapons is not a definition I seek to attach to my 2A views. Because I prefer Walnut and Steel doesn't mean you should only own Winchesters, Mossies, or Mausers. I believe you should own what you feel comfortable with and like. You want an AR with a 100 round dual snail mag, go right ahead. I'm not saying Fudds don't meet this definition as a whole, I know quite a few. I just happen to like old guns but have no issue with anyone owning what they like. Live and let live and pass the ammo, you know?

 

[brewer12345]

I frequent a public rifle range where anyone can throw down under $20 and shoot. They rent as well, and this is in an area popular with foreign tourists. I have seen lots of bad behavior. Common is a group of 3 or 4 international tourists who rent one gun, shoot a box of shells and then take their pictures in front of the target. Some of them don't seem to understand when the range rules are explained to them and quickly get tossed out for violations multiple times in 5 minutes.

The one that takes the cake is the dude who showed up a couple summers ago with friends. This specimen was drunk as a skunk and the range officers noticed. They asked him to leave and he decided to get physical with them. One of them happened to have been an MP in the past, so drunk dude was very impolitely subdued and the park rangers (this range is in a state park) were summoned. More than one charge, at least one felony. I make a point of tipping the range officers every time I go because I know they deal with a lot of idiots in order to keep the range safe. I suspect they take one look at my smokepole or lever action, see that I am not hitting the baffles with every other shot and move on to the problem children.

 

[armoredman]

I was perplexed by these policies as well - seemed pretty pointless to me to so I asked around. As I understand it, they're trying to prevent "suicides by gun rental." The theory is if you're planning on renting a gun and offing yourself with it, you likely won't bring a friend along to watch. I can't imagine the "suicide by rental" is very common, but it has happened. Around here, most ranges waive that requirement for pistol permit holders.

Happened twice at the rental range I worked at many years ago...bad juju. That place has been gone for almost 20 years now.