Guns that tame the .357 Magnum

[tipoc]

Other than Speer Short Barrel, I am not aware of store bought ammo for the smaller guns in 357 Magnum. Reloading for them is completely different discussion, the guns that DON'T "handle" .357 Magnum per se..

Mostly we're talking about mid range .357 ammo. Personally, from the smaller J frames in .357 and kin I prefer a 148 gr. JHP or LSWC bullet at about 900-1,000 fps. Mild shooting with moderate recoil. A bit more than what 38 Spl. +P does. A lighter bullet at a higher speed will also work. That depends on the shooter and the load. In the J frame we're talking about 15 yards and under (mostly under) rapid fire accuracy. The job of the gun and the ability to hit what you want to at the speed that's needed, tells you what bullet and load to use. There are a good many decent commercial loads for this IMHO.

I don't try to "tame" anything. I just aim to shoot a round that does the job I want it to do that I can shoot well from the gun that suits the job.

 

[shoobe01]

Though silly in many ways, I wanted to +1 the Desert Eagle. Have fired several. Won't even cycle without full house loads, especially in .44. Where it's fine. Stout but very shootable gun. The .50 AE is horrible. A howitzer. I fired it twice. The second just to make sure I hadn't done something wrong.

But in .357? Softer than any 9mm. One of the few guns I can outrun, as the slide velocity is quite low, and in .357 it's got simply no recoil or rise if you have a good grip and stance.

This is the past. The new ones are lighter yet, so may be even easier to shoot, and hold up, and carry. Still a big gun.


Yeah, fired plenty of other .357s. 686s, 686+s, many K frames, a couple 640s, a 340... briefly. I am pretty not recoil sensitive, so often shoot things no one else can handle to prove the gun works. Not that it's fun, but I do get to try things like airweight .357s.

Most recently, I ran out of .38 so did most of an IDPA classifier in .357 with my 19. With no gloves. And solid wood stocks. My hand hurt for three days.

 

[RealGun]

Mostly we're talking about mid range .357 ammo. Personally, from the smaller J frames in .357 and kin I prefer a 148 gr. JHP or LSWC bullet at about 900-1,000 fps. Mild shooting with moderate recoil. A bit more than what 38 Spl. +P does. A lighter bullet at a higher speed will also work. That depends on the shooter and the load. In the J frame we're talking about 15 yards and under (mostly under) rapid fire accuracy. The job of the gun and the ability to hit what you want to at the speed that's needed, tells you what bullet and load to use. There are a good many decent commercial loads for this IMHO.

I don't try to "tame" anything. I just aim to shoot a round that does the job I want it to do that I can shoot well from the gun that suits the job.

Yet you just described how you "tame" the round to suit the gun and yourself by reloading. We do like to parse words, but it should make sense. And no, we're not talking about "mid range .357 ammo". You wrote "A bit more than what 38 Spl. +P does.", which is a pretty good description of .357 minimum or even lower in the span of common powder weights between 38 +p and .357 minimum. In this context we are talking about the smaller guns, as opposed to the topic of the thread.

 

[tipoc]

Yet you just described how you "tame" the round to suit the gun and yourself by reloading. We do like to parse words, but it should make sense. And no, we're not talking about "mid range .357 ammo". You wrote "A bit more than what 38 Spl. +P does.", which is a pretty good description of .357 minimum or even lower in the span of common powder weights between 38 +p and .357 minimum. In this context we are talking about the smaller guns, as opposed to the topic of the thread.

I did not mention reloading. The rounds I mentioned are available off the shelf. Yep you are correct, the particular rounds are lower end .357 which is still effective and more powerful than most commercial 38 Spl. Here it's less the caliber than the load. In other guns, 686 for example, mid range loads are more effective that many more powerful loads because they are more applicable to some tasks.

Second I was replying to a part of this discussion on smaller guns in particular, in what I wrote, which has been a discussion in this thread.

Third, the point I've made in this thread is to select a round to match the job at hand and a gun for that job. The point of that approach is to not "tame" the round, whatever that means, but to tame the shooter.

The shooter who has read about the efficiency of a 125 gr. bullet at 1400 fps from a 4" barrel and chooses that round for self defense but chooses a gun too light for them to properly handle that round has made an error. They can correct it any number of ways. The round has made no error, neither has the gun.

tipoc

 

[RealGun]

I did not mention reloading. The rounds I mentioned are available off the shelf. Yep you are correct, the particular rounds are lower end .357 which is still effective and more powerful than most commercial 38 Spl. Here it's less the caliber than the load. In other guns, 686 for example, mid range loads are more effective that many more powerful loads because they are more applicable to some tasks.

Second I was replying to a part of this discussion on smaller guns in particular, in what I wrote, which has been a discussion in this thread.

Third, the point I've made in this thread is to select a round to match the job at hand and a gun for that job. The point of that approach is to not "tame" the round, whatever that means, but to tame the shooter.

The shooter who has read about the efficiency of a 125 gr. bullet at 1400 fps from a 4" barrel and chooses that round for self defense but chooses a gun too light for them to properly handle that round has made an error. They can correct it any number of ways. The round has made no error, neither has the gun.

tipoc

I guess I inferred reloading, since I am not aware of off-the-shelf ammo that is significantly below full spec except maybe Speer Short Barrel. Could you perhaps list the ammo to which you referred?


To "tame" ammo should not be difficult to comprehend, but you would have to allow that the reloader creates his own options.

 

[ZVP]

We've read about people that qualified with .38 Special +P, but carried .357, and others that carried .38 Specials in their 686 like Edmundo Mireles. The reason is evidently because they're easier to control. While a preponderance of those carrying .357 J-frames admit to preferring .38 Special +P, there's ample evidence that the slightly larger K-frame Model 19's have also been more shootable with .38's. Even Dirty Harry, which I would like to remind people was a fictional character, made a reference to the ease of shooting .38's in a .357. So what does it take from the gun to tame the .357?

In my own experience, I found shooting .357's in steel J-frames was not uncontrollable, but there was two factors involved: first, ".357 Magnum" includes a very broad range of loads starting from anywhere just above .38 Special +P pressures and velocities. A .357 case loaded with a maximum charge of W231 or Longshot is not the same as a full load of H110. The other factor is barrel length. Loads in snub-nose guns develop hundreds of feet per second less velocity than they will in a six-inch barrel. So I could shoot a full-house load of Longshot out of a steel J-frame and think it was hot but not too bad. But I found a full case of H110 from a six-inch barrel would have a lot more energy. Of course, the gun was heavier and that helped control some of the recoil, but I wouldn't say that it was easy to shoot.

There's a few guns out there that I've not shot, but which present novel ways to tame the .357. The S&W 627 V-Comp for example. Besides the huge N-frame, it uses a full underlug on a long barrel and a compensator. The 686 "Competitor" uses underlug weights. The Ruger Redhawk with a 5.5" barrel is simply massive. Most people will choose a lighter, easier-to-carry .357, a J-frame or a Model 19, an SP101 or a Kimber, but no matter what load they chamber, they will be shooting a kinder-gentler .357, and the chances are they will shoot a light load better. So what handguns do you think do a good job of both producing and taming the hottest .357 Magnum performance?

I

We've read about people that qualified with .38 Special +P, but carried .357, and others that carried .38 Specials in their 686 like Edmundo Mireles. The reason is evidently because they're easier to control. While a preponderance of those carrying .357 J-frames admit to preferring .38 Special +P, there's ample evidence that the slightly larger K-frame Model 19's have also been more shootable with .38's. Even Dirty Harry, which I would like to remind people was a fictional character, made a reference to the ease of shooting .38's in a .357. So what does it take from the gun to tame the .357?

In my own experience, I found shooting .357's in steel J-frames was not uncontrollable, but there was two factors involved: first, ".357 Magnum" includes a very broad range of loads starting from anywhere just above .38 Special +P pressures and velocities. A .357 case loaded with a maximum charge of W231 or Longshot is not the same as a full load of H110. The other factor is barrel length. Loads in snub-nose guns develop hundreds of feet per second less velocity than they will in a six-inch barrel. So I could shoot a full-house load of Longshot out of a steel J-frame and think it was hot but not too bad. But I found a full case of H110 from a six-inch barrel would have a lot more energy. Of course, the gun was heavier and that helped control some of the recoil, but I wouldn't say that it was easy to shoot.

There's a few guns out there that I've not shot, but which present novel ways to tame the .357. The S&W 627 V-Comp for example. Besides the huge N-frame, it uses a full underlug on a long barrel and a compensator. The 686 "Competitor" uses underlug weights. The Ruger Redhawk with a 5.5" barrel is simply massive. Most people will choose a lighter, easier-to-carry .357, a J-frame or a Model 19, an SP101 or a Kimber, but no matter what load they chamber, they will be shooting a kinder-gentler .357, and the chances are they will shoot a light load better. So what handguns do you think do a good job of both producing and taming the hottest .357 Magnum performance?

 

[ZVP]

I knowit's heavy and slow to reload but my Ruger Vaquero really tames any load I have tried. Mine is a 4" and carry real nice in a western sholder rig.
Light guns don't soak the recoil.
Dave

 

[gotboostvr]

I had a 6.5" Blackhawk 357 over upon a time that with 158gr factory ammo had practically no recoil. My 6" 686 was a real pussycat too.

Right now I lean on a 4" 686 for most my magnum shooting. The trade off for how it handles in hand and out of a holster is worth the slight bump in recoil and loss of velocity with the shorter tube and less weight.

 

[Obturation]

6" gp100 makes the hottest 357 magnums pleasant. Ive shot j frames with warm loads, but i wouldnt consider that too terrible though . I think it just depends on your tolerance for recoil

 

[blue32]

While my 686 6" does a great job at absorbing recoil I wouldn't want to fire too many loads approaching and exceeding hotter loads with the Hogue rubber grips. My 600 ft lb loads are tempered nicely with Ahrends square butt finger groove grips.

 

[RealGun]

While my 686 6" does a great job at absorbing recoil I wouldn't want to fire too many loads approaching and exceeding hotter loads with the Hogue rubber grips. My 600 ft lb loads are tempered nicely with Ahrends square butt finger groove grips.

Got a picture? You know, I think when you need to go radical on grips, you really need a more massive gun.

 

[Indigo22]

I have a set of New Old Stock Herrett grips for my Ruger Service Six that tame magnum recoil to power puff level that I've decided to put them back in the drawer. I like the stock grips better with a T-grip. My Six has a 2 3/4 inch barrel and the Herretts would look much better on a 4 or 6 inch gun.

 

[gotboostvr]

Got a picture? You know, I think when you need to go radical on grips, you really need a more massive gun.

I wouldn't call those grips "radical". They're not terribly expensive by aftermarket grip standards or over sized. Those happen to be among my favorites.

Here's a set in Zebrawood on my 629...

 

[RealGun]

I wouldn't call those grips "radical". They're not terribly expensive by aftermarket grip standards or over sized. Those happen to be among my favorites.

Don't get hung up on parsing the word "radical". I was responding to blue32 and his 686 6". My point intended is that grips as a mitigation of recoil rather than addressing comfort or trigger reach, are adapting a gun that is not massive or balanced enough for the ammo it shoots. At the same time, guns like some of the Blackhawks come with grips not at all well suited for the cartridge they shoot. Also making the grip longer for a full hand purchase may rule out concealment. That said, a range-only or hunting gun can be anything you want it to be. Then there are the rubber grips that may be effective but so ugly you just can't resist an upgrade.

 

[gotboostvr]

Don't get hung up on parsing the word "radical". I was responding to blue32 and his 686 6". My point intended is that grips as a mitigation of recoil rather than addressing comfort or trigger reach, are adapting a gun that is not massive or balanced enough for the ammo it shoots. At the same time, guns like some of the Blackhawks come with grips not at all well suited for the cartridge they shoot. Also making the grip longer for a full hand purchase may rule out concealment. That said, a range-only or hunting gun can be anything you want it to be. Then there are the rubber grips that may be effective but so ugly you just can't resist an upgrade.

When did this become "which carry guns tame the 357"?

The grips are part of the gun, wether they're custom wood or factory rubber. The short answer for this thread is guns with a long barrel, big grips and alot of weight are the ones that tame the 357 mangle 'em best.

 

[RealGun]

When did this become "which carry guns tame the 357"?

The grips are part of the gun, wether they're custom wood or factory rubber. The short answer for this thread is guns with a long barrel, big grips and alot of weight are the ones that tame the 357 mangle 'em best.

Why are you parsing the word "concealment"? In context it was a reasonable reference. Maybe 2019 will be better.

 

[Indigo22]

I have a set of New Old Stock Herrett grips for my Ruger Service Six that tame magnum recoil to power puff level that I've decided to put them back in the drawer. I like the stock grips better with a T-grip. My Six has a 2 3/4 inch barrel and the Herretts would look much better on a 4 or 6 inch gun.
View attachment 818357
View attachment 818358

Well I've decided to sell the Herrett's. Watch the listings. Or PM me.

 

[RealGun]

Well I've decided to sell the Herrett's. Watch the listings. Or PM me.

I have a Herrett's Detective, minimum dimensions, not custom fit, made for a Security Six square butt. Near new condition. If interested, PM me. It didn't "tame" anything but made the gun more concealable.

 

[Boattale]

I've got a 6 shot 686 silhouette model with Pachmayr grips. I'm fine with shooting the heaviest 158 to 185 grain loads from it.

 

[Chaparral]

Although factors like grip design and bore axis-to-grip geometry may have some effect, my simple rule-of-thumb is that .357 magnums are manageable (and not painful) in revolvers weighing 32 oz. or more.

 

[IWAC]

The easiest way to "tame" a .357 Magnum is to shoot "hot .38" to about 1,000fps ...~ 38Special +P loads in it. I discovered early on I didn't like even "Skeeter's Medium" 357 magnum load of 13.5 gr. 2400! Milder loads of Unique have served very well over the past 40 years. Plinking, IPSC, whatever else for my Model 19 ,Dan Wesson, S&W 586, and Ruger Match Champion. Pleasant to shoot, economical with powder, and plenty for any reasonable purpose. YMMV

Oh, as was mentioned Pachmayr or Hogue grips do help, too. They are not pretty, but I shoot better with them.

 

[2011redrider]

We've read about people that qualified with .38 Special +P, but carried .357, and others that carried .38 Specials in their 686 like Edmundo Mireles. The reason is evidently because they're easier to control. While a preponderance of those carrying .357 J-frames admit to preferring .38 Special +P, there's ample evidence that the slightly larger K-frame Model 19's have also been more shootable with .38's. Even Dirty Harry, which I would like to remind people was a fictional character, made a reference to the ease of shooting .38's in a .357. So what does it take from the gun to tame the .357?

Actually Harry didn't carry a 357, he carried a SW Model 29, 44 Magnum. Skip to about the 1:00
mark for the quote.
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I carried a 4" Python and later a 6" 686 in the mid 80's thru the about 94 when my Department move to auto loaders - SW 4006. Carried both w non finger grooved Pachmayr's and didn't have any problems with recoil.

 

[BWS]

2018 pic.... was hunting Ghogs.

 

[RealGun]

The easiest way to "tame" a .357 Magnum is to shoot "hot .38" to about 1,000fps ...~ 38Special +P loads in it. I discovered early on I didn't like even "Skeeter's Medium" 357 magnum load of 13.5 gr. 2400! Milder loads of Unique have served very well over the past 40 years. Plinking, IPSC, whatever else for my Model 19 ,Dan Wesson, S&W 586, and Ruger Match Champion. Pleasant to shoot, economical with powder, and plenty for any reasonable purpose. YMMV

Oh, as was mentioned Pachmayr or Hogue grips do help, too. They are not pretty, but I shoot better with them.

However, that is to say a way to NOT tame it.

 

[Crowman]

My hill walking gun tames hot 357 loads pretty effectively. It is a Ruger GP100 Match Champion with Pachmayr Diamond grips which really tame push-back. I carry it stoked with Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast RNFP Magnum loads. It is lighter than the standard GP100 and better balanced.