cowtownup
Member
jcwit, I am using a factory crimp die.. i am doing what I would say is a light crimp...
Handloads & Lead in the barrel???
- Thread starter cowtownup
- Start date
- Status
ArchAngelCD
Member.
There are those who feel the post-sizing performed by the Lee Factory Crimp die will cause the bullet to be undersized thus adding to the possibility of leading the barrel. I have not had that problem but I don't doubt those who report having that problem.
Try crimping with your seating die and eliminate the FCD and see if that helps the leading situation.
hueyville
Member
mgmorden, Since I actually started documenting all of my reloading I have loaded and fired over a half million cast bullets in a variety of guns. 95+% of these are made to standard specs as far as diameter and OAL as I usually shoot them through a myriad of guns.
For rest of posters, slugging you barrel is great if your loading for one gun. Have one 44 mag that gets a custom size bullet and one .454 Casull. I personally own over a dozen 1911's in .45 acp. Then in 38/357 I own a dozen or more handguns, 9mm I have three Hi-Powers just because they are such a nice pistol even though one of my least favorite pistol cartridges. That being said, 9mm is a stunning sub machinegun cartridge and I love it for that. With gas checks I can run cast through them doing mag dumps. I have half a dozen or so .44's and so on.
I am not going to slug every gun and size bullets for it. I have just a couple that are out of spec enough to have issue with my standard size cast loads. In fact, I have been known to trade off quite a few out of spec guns, let the guy shooting one box of factory ammo per year have them. The few guns that don't shoot cast due to being that far out of spec I keep mostly for sentimental reasons. Like a little Colt Cobra and such. My high volume 1911's in 45 and 38 super were built with custom barrels that function flawlessly with my standard cast bullet from the onset. My pistol smith is always sent a sample box of my ammo to build the gun to. Barrel and springs all tuned to my everyday loads. Plain Jane guns that won't shoot my standard sizings get traded or not shot with cast thus migrate to the bottom of a.stack in the back of a vault. If your only loading for one gun then slug it. Logistics of having two to three diameters of bullets per caliber would overwhelm me.
For rest of posters, slugging you barrel is great if your loading for one gun. Have one 44 mag that gets a custom size bullet and one .454 Casull. I personally own over a dozen 1911's in .45 acp. Then in 38/357 I own a dozen or more handguns, 9mm I have three Hi-Powers just because they are such a nice pistol even though one of my least favorite pistol cartridges. That being said, 9mm is a stunning sub machinegun cartridge and I love it for that. With gas checks I can run cast through them doing mag dumps. I have half a dozen or so .44's and so on.
I am not going to slug every gun and size bullets for it. I have just a couple that are out of spec enough to have issue with my standard size cast loads. In fact, I have been known to trade off quite a few out of spec guns, let the guy shooting one box of factory ammo per year have them. The few guns that don't shoot cast due to being that far out of spec I keep mostly for sentimental reasons. Like a little Colt Cobra and such. My high volume 1911's in 45 and 38 super were built with custom barrels that function flawlessly with my standard cast bullet from the onset. My pistol smith is always sent a sample box of my ammo to build the gun to. Barrel and springs all tuned to my everyday loads. Plain Jane guns that won't shoot my standard sizings get traded or not shot with cast thus migrate to the bottom of a.stack in the back of a vault. If your only loading for one gun then slug it. Logistics of having two to three diameters of bullets per caliber would overwhelm me.
LivewireBlanco
Member
Never had good luck with Hoppes getting lead out. Switched to Shooter's Choice and haven't had a problem with lead since.
Apologies to OP for tagging along on the thread.
Walkalong, thanks for your input re: fouling past chamber, stretching to muzzle. I originally guessed that was caused by the lube running out, but I have proven well enough to myself that more lube is not helping. I'll either try bumping up my charge, or once I get some pure lead I can also slug my bores and try some softer bullet alloy.
Walkalong, thanks for your input re: fouling past chamber, stretching to muzzle. I originally guessed that was caused by the lube running out, but I have proven well enough to myself that more lube is not helping. I'll either try bumping up my charge, or once I get some pure lead I can also slug my bores and try some softer bullet alloy.
jcwit
member
Please lets not get into a mega long winded discussion on the pluses or minuses of the FCD. Supposedly it works great with jacketed ammo.
With that said all I can say to the above quote is "YUP".
LiveLife
Member
cowtownup said:
As shown above, 2004 Alliant load data indicates 6.9 gr as max charge for 180 gr lead bullet and Power Pistol using 1.125" OAL. If you use 10% reduction as start charge, that would be 6.2 gr.
Lyman #49 load data
+1 to Walkalong's post #8. At 5.0 gr of Power Pistol, you may not be generating enough chamber pressure to bump/deform the base of the bullet to seal with the barrel (obturation) and experiencing high pressure gas leakage/gas cutting which increases leading. I would try 5.6 - 5.8 - 6.0 gr charges and see if leading decreases. If so, continue the powder workup while monitoring accuracy trend and select the powder charge that produces reliable slide cycling, accurate shot groups and no leading.
I do not recommend the use of FCD for lead bullets in semi-auto calibers. If a reloader is experiencing leading with FCD, a simple test would be to load some test rounds without it. If leading decreases or goes away, then load the lead rounds without the FCD.cowtownup said:
I did the same with frustration until I wrapped some copper strands (Chore boy) around an old copper bore brush to remove the leading. Now, one dip in Hoppes #9 and a few strokes will remove the leading and I have a clean barrel.
No, unless you want to. As others already suggested, I do the following to minimize/reduce leading when shooting lead bullets:
- Slug the barrel and use bullet sized .001" over the groove diameter (so for .400" groove diameter barrel, use .401" sized lead bullets).
- I load for multiple pistols so instead of using different sized bullets, I use softer bullets (12/15/18 BHN instead of 22/24 BHN) with sufficient powder/charges that provide proper deformation of bullet base (obturation). For me, having one load that works in multiple pistols is much easier. I mean, what if you get the bullets mixed up and lock up the slide?
- Use the barrel drop / function check tests and use the longest OAL to reduce high pressure gas leakage/gas cutting.
- Conduct a full powder work up to determine powder charges that produce reliable slide cycling/spent case extraction and accuracy without leading.
I think velocity/leading is relative to the bullet-to-barrel fit/lead alloy hardness/powder burn rate/powder charge.
Since slower burning powders tend to develop more consistent chamber pressures at high-to-near max load data, I use faster burning powders for lighter target loads (W231/HP-38 or faster). I am not sure if using lighter 5.0 gr charge of Power Pistol was meant to develop a lighter target load vs full-power load.
Since I load for multiple pistols, even when I lack the .001" over bullet-to-barrel fit, using softer BHN bullets and W231/HP-38 allow me to load lighter target loads that produce accuracy without leading. Much more on leading at this link - http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm
Attachments
Last edited:
Reefinmike
Member
after tinkering around a bit, i have gotten to the point that after a hundred rounds, I may have very minimal leading- usually a couple chunks clinging to the lands very close to the forcing cone. for 38's, my recipe is 80% clip on ww's, 20% stick on ww's, casted hot and quenched. lightly aloxed, sized to .358 and then another mild coat of alox and plop them on top of 3.4gr hp38. after a shooting session, I will shoot a cylinder or two of plated 357 rounds to clear out any lead and keep me up to snuff on the hot stuff!
same goes for 45 but I dont see much leading. to be honest, while brass hunting, i pick up any dropped round for my milk jug collection and I pull any 45 rn fmj ammo, weigh the bullet to ensure it is a 230 grainer and I load it back it up with fresh powder for clearing out residual lead.
same goes for 45 but I dont see much leading. to be honest, while brass hunting, i pick up any dropped round for my milk jug collection and I pull any 45 rn fmj ammo, weigh the bullet to ensure it is a 230 grainer and I load it back it up with fresh powder for clearing out residual lead.
cowtownup
Member
Thank you for the response bds.... I enjoyed the other posters comments as well... Being new to reloading, I've already loaded about 300 more rounds that I've used the FCD on but with a slightly hotter charge at 5.5 grains, so I'm probably going to learn a good lesson here about being patient and shoot some before you load a bunch... I've loaded a few rounds up at 6.5 grains but noticed it ejected the spent casing quite a bit farther than factory ammo does, so I backed down from that.. I'm observing all of my casing for signs of pressure and have yet to see anything out of the way there either. Nevertheless, i enjoy rolling my own (ammo that is) and I find it quite relaxing..
dragon813gt
Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2011
- Messages
- 1,137
If you shoot lead then you need to read this: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
There is a chapter dedicated to leading and it's causes.
Fit is king along w/ proper lube.
Brought to you by TapaTalk
There is a chapter dedicated to leading and it's causes.
Fit is king along w/ proper lube.
Brought to you by TapaTalk
cowtownup
Member
This is after 100 rounds of lead.....
I followed that up with about 25 plated bullets and it cleaned it right up...
I followed that up with about 25 plated bullets and it cleaned it right up...
A light coat of Alox helped greatly with leading. Also,bumping the load up or down will show what works best. I can shoot several hundred Valiant or MBC bullets in my .38s/.357s and my .45 ACPs without leading. I just got a set of .40 S&W dies and several thousand Valiant 180gr .40 bullets but haven't got to shoot any yet.
jack44
Member
When I had a lead problem in my Marlin 45/70 I filled it with tranny fuiled (F) overnight. In the AM most of the lead was lose! I then took a 45 cal.brush wraped it with copper pad and scrubed I also use shooter choise lead remover let sit for 10 min. and the barrel was clean! I had to take alot of lead out! I sluged the barrel and the dia. was 452! now its 459.5! big jump...huh.
GLOOB - oversized can cause leading. Load a prepped dummy round, no lube, seat to the lube groove. Look for a fine lead sliver in the groove. Look for anything that will leave slivers of lead in the bbl. It's not gas cutting, but when a CB runs over those slivers, they get ironed onto the barrel. When the barrel sizes down the CB, some lead can get rubbed off by friction or sheared off. Causes leading the entire length of the barrel. I had a lot of trouble when my alloy was high in tin compared to antimony. Added Sb and the problem went away.
Check for a sharp edge at the transition from the chamber to throat or on the face of the leads. I polish all my barrels and after slugging all barrels I bought molds to drop at least .002" oversize and size to needed diameter.
Most of my barrels I haven't cleaned for six to eight months now. They are bright and shiny clean. My lube is a mixture of Carnuba Red, JPW, red grease, and moly. My 9's all stopped leading when I sized plenty big, most are .358" and I do water drop them for a harder bullet in that caliber.
Size is #1 !!! Beyond that sharp edges shave lead and the next round smears it into the barrel, and on and on..
Also Lee TL designs aren't the best for not leading.
Oh Ya, you should never have to rely on the powder charge to "bump up the bullet" to get it to seal !!!!
Most of my barrels I haven't cleaned for six to eight months now. They are bright and shiny clean. My lube is a mixture of Carnuba Red, JPW, red grease, and moly. My 9's all stopped leading when I sized plenty big, most are .358" and I do water drop them for a harder bullet in that caliber.
Size is #1 !!! Beyond that sharp edges shave lead and the next round smears it into the barrel, and on and on..
Also Lee TL designs aren't the best for not leading.
Oh Ya, you should never have to rely on the powder charge to "bump up the bullet" to get it to seal !!!!
Last edited:
zxcvbob
Member
If you shoot another 100 rounds does the leading get worse, or is it maxed out already? (your pic didn't look all that bad to me) Sometimes it's self-limiting.
I don't reload .40S&W, but 5 grains of PP sounds awfully light. If you want to shoot light loads, try using Red Dot powder or Bullseye.
I don't reload .40S&W, but 5 grains of PP sounds awfully light. If you want to shoot light loads, try using Red Dot powder or Bullseye.
cowtownup
Member
I've not shot 200 rounds straight yet... I'm going to do that soon.. I've loaded some with 5.5 grains of Longshot and plan to try that as soon as the weather clears up a bit...
a couple of things:
load a dummy round using the fcd. pull the bullet and measure its diameter at the base. make sure it's not reduced.
try seating and crimping in separate steps when not using the fcd.
also, try a harder bullet. your leading may be caused by the soft lead bullet skidding over the lands in the barrel.
murf
load a dummy round using the fcd. pull the bullet and measure its diameter at the base. make sure it's not reduced.
try seating and crimping in separate steps when not using the fcd.
also, try a harder bullet. your leading may be caused by the soft lead bullet skidding over the lands in the barrel.
murf
hueyville
Member
You could have it electro chemically polished. Shooter the bore, less Burris to veal lead as it runs by.
- Status
