Hang fire in .45 Colt...

[huntershooter]

Using AA9, CCI 300 primers, 255 gr. (Lyman mold-commercially cast) KTSWC (GC), Starline brass.
Powder charge is 19.5 gr., +P laod in Ruger Bisley. Each charge individually weighed.
Took chrono to range for load development, accuracy phase.
Out of 12 rds. fired I had 3 hang fires; pop (primer), BANG.
In 35 yrs. of reloading I have never experienced this.
Have used AA9 in .357, .41 and .44 mags-usually one of the "accuracy" loads for moderate to low end "top" velocities in caliber.
Powder is NEW 8# can. Standard LP primers per Accurate Arms data.
The only answer I'm coming up with as to cause of inconsistent igniton (velocities) and hang fire is not enough roll crimp.
With crimp die (dedicated crimp die-I don't seat and crimp in one station) "maxed out", the visual crimp seems lacking. This with both Dillon and RCBS roll crimp dies. Further "tightening" of crimp die results in swaged in case mouth that is parallel to case body-no additional roll crimp.
Anyone with experience in this issue?

Thanks.
T

 

[highlander 5]

just looked at an older Speer manual that was close by and their data for AA 9 requires a 350 magnum primer. In my experience most ball powders for magnum pistol loads need a magnum type primer.

 

[GaryL]

I made the mistake of loading AA#9 in some 45 colt rounds about 10 years back. No hang fires, but way too much unburned powder which jams up everything. I still have a couple hundred I'll probably break down sometime soon. As far as I'm concerned it's the wrong application for AA#9.

I used WLP primers, which has worked fine for me with H110 and AA#9, summer or winter.

 

[Slamfire]

Was it cold outside?

I had never had pistol hangfires till I took a well used M586 out in 40ish weather. This pistol had been used in PPC competition and the previous owner said he had fired at least 80,000 rounds with 148 LWC 2.7 grains Bullseye and Federal primers. Federal primers are the most sensitive primers on the market.

I took the pistol out in cold weather and with a 158 LSWC 12.0 grains AA#9 and WSP I got hangfires and a bullet lodged in the throat.

To open the cylinder I had to knock the bullet out of the throat with a screwdriver. While the primer looked well struke, the problem was a tired mainspring. I later replaced the mainspring and next time, though the weather was a bit warmer, not a hiccup.







What I learned is that ball powders are hard to ignite and in cold weather you need a robust ignition system. Which explains why military primers tend to be magnum level since the military expects to fight in severe cold environments. Environments which any sane person would be home in front of the fireplace.

First thing, clean out the mechanism, replace your mainspring then muck about with different primers.

 

[243winxb]

Expander ball should be .002" or more, under bullet diameter for good neck tension. Use a Mag primer (WLP)OR Tilt muzzle up before firing, to get powder against the standard primer.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My guess is, since the .45 Colt case is so large it's possible your powder charge was forward and not touching the primer. That could cause a hang fire. AA#9 is not known for needing a magnum primer so I don't think that's the problem. I would not continue to use AA#9 in that large a case since this has happened once already.

 

[WYOMan]

I've used AA#5 in my 45 colt's for years, and never had any issues. Maybe try that. I also use it for 45 ACP, so I only need one powder for both.

 

[murf]

aa#9 doesn't need a magnum primer. the cci300 should do just fine.

huntershooter, does the bisley have reduced-power springs installed?

were the cases lubed at all before you reloaded? thinking maybe contaminated powder. can you pull a round and see if the powder is clumped up, or regular-looking?

murf

 

[huntershooter]

Murf;
No lube, I had thought powder could be a problem-but it's a new 8# can.
Pulled bullet-powder looked fine-no "clumps".
Standard springs in gun-not reduced or messed with.
It was cold as hell.

About ready to say "uncle" with the AA9 in this application.
From experience as example; 19 gr of 2400 will give me close to the same velocity as 19 gr of AA9.
Have proven this in .357/.41 and .44 magnum(s).
Using 2400 with the same bullet/primer/case works fine, just not as accurate as I'd like (couple inches @ 25 yds.).
I may see if I can get a .454 Cassull roll crimp die and cut down the die body so it will work with the .45 Colt case. As I understand it the .454 roll crimp die has a much more aggressive crimp, due to substantially more recoil generated.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

It's not the crimp that's causing the hang fires. If the crimp was the problem you would get low velocities or even a squib under the most extreme circumstances but not a hang fire. I truly feel the cold weather with a powder forward situation caused the slight hang fire.

 

[Walkalong]

I truly feel the cold weather with a powder forward situation caused the slight hang fire.

My guess is the same as ArchAngelCD's, plus the fact AA #9 is not particularly suited to the low pressures generated in .45 Colt, even at that higher load level. Everything together was too much for a good burn. I don't think a mag primer would have made a difference.

 

[murf]

huntershooter, switch to winchester wpl primers and try again, or federal, or tula, etc.

those cci300s may be your problem. couldn't hurt.

murf

 

[dodge]

I use have the same problem with 10 grs of Unique under a Hornady 250 gr bullet and went to a CCI 350 primer. That eliminated the problem. It semed that the CCI 300 primer just wasn't developing a long enough flame to light off the powder.

 

[243winxb]

There is only 1 large pistol primer available from both Win. & Rem. The Win. WLP works well with Bullseye or 296 powders. Should do well with AA9 also.