HBAR uppers for MD compliance

[Plinkin' Logs]

As many of you may or may not know, here in the state of MD only HBAR and AR pistols are the only legal AR-15 platforms since October 2013. I have 2 stripped lowers and plan to build one into a AR pistol and the other into another HBAR. I am going to be moving ahead with the second HBAR build first.

Maryland seems to be very picky about HBAR meaning HBAR (initially in the law they only allowed Colt HBARs but they have since elaborated any HBAR, but MUST be labeled HBAR).

Can anyone recommend a good 16" to 20" inch chrome-lined 1:7 4150 HBAR upper for my build or at least a good HBAR barrel if nothing else.

 

[Jackal]

Ok, thats almost the dumbest gun control law ever. So here's my suggestion: Buy a factory Hbar, have it turned down/reprofiled everywhere, except leave the markings intact. Still technically an HBAR. Hehehe... Saving the world 1 loophole at a time.

 

[jerkface11]

Are H-bars less lethal than pencil barrels?

 

[Plinkin' Logs]

That is is the depth-less wisdom of Marylnad law makers. Anyway I have been unsuccessful in finding an HBAR with that is
1. 1:7
2. Chrome lined
3. at least 16"
4. 4150 Mil spec

The best I can find is the Delton Mid-Length Carbine HBAR kit, but its 4140 not 4150. Big deal or good enough? My current AR is a HBAR 1:9 chrome lined 4150 Mil spec Windham, but I was looking for a 1:7, but looks like I might have to build either with the cheaper Delton or stick to 1:9.

For the pistol build I can use whatever I want.

 

[HankB]

(initially in the law they only allowed Colt HBARs but they have since elaborated any HBAR, but MUST be labeled HBAR).

Check the exact wording of the law - if it doesn't explicitly call out physical characteristics like length, diameter, weight, etc., maybe you can just have HBAR engraved on whatever you want.

 

[HOOfan_1]

That law and 922r are the dumbest gun laws I have ever heard of.

 

[1911 guy]

The difference between 4140 and 4150 steel is 0.38-0.43 vs 0.48-0.53 percent carbon by weight. It probably makes a difference if you are going to do frequent mag dumps. Other than that, remember that 4140 is standard barrel steel. Everything from the M1 Garand to the M14 to almost all commercially available rifles come with 4140 tubes.

Basically, it's 1/2 of 1 percent carbon. For a range gun. I wouldn't sweat it. If you ever foresee a need to use it as a light machine gun, find a barrel in 4150. But even that isn't the whole story. A "real" M4 barrel is Mil-Spec 11595E - Barrel Steel (CMV). There's specs not just for carbon content, but for chromium, molybdenum and vanadium.

 

[Plinkin' Logs]

The Windham is 11595E ordinace grade 4150, but it is 1:9. So are you saying you would choose 1:7 with an inferior steel over a 1:9 with a milspec barrel? How is Delton's quality these days?

 

[Sam1911]

So, forgive the side-track, but what IS MD's take on building an AR these days?

Can you buy a lower at your local shop? Are there "evil features" that are no-nos?

I remember the old "HBAR" discussion from back when I lived there, but it seems things have changed quite a bit recently.

Would a bull barrel, non-military format be acceptable? Or does it have to look and feel like the old Colt H-BAR rifle?

Thanks!

 

[Plinkin' Logs]

You can buy lowers but you have to do a 77 and wait 7 days. A prebuilt HBAR is same day cash and carry. You can buy lowers but if you bought them after October 31, 2013 then they can only be built into HBARs, AR pistols, and SBRs assuming you do the paperwrk for a sbr. AR pistols (as well as AK pistols) have a 7 day waiting period. Not really sure about if there is a waiting period for an prebuilt SBR.

They have a list of banned guns but then extend that any centerfire semi-auto with more then 2 of the following is a "copy cat" and also banned:
1. Flash hider
2. Folding stock
3. Grenade/ flare launcher

The MD police are get real picky about it being an HBAR specifically. They told business they had to stop selling mid contour rifles. They say it must be labeled hbar or heavy contour (although rumor is anything .750 or thicker is good). Not sure how this would work if you manufactured your own barrels.

 

[HOOfan_1]

How can a gun enthusiast stand to live in such a screwed up place?

 

[jerkface11]

I'd love to hear the justification they used for this.

 

[Sam1911]

How can a gun enthusiast stand to live in such a screwed up place?

I know quite a few who do.

They have other reason which keep them in the state and they spend their shooting time mostly on sorts of guns that aren't banned.

I wouldn't want to do it again, but life sure does go on.

 

[Sam1911]

Thanks Plinkin' Logs!

So this sounds like it would be a MD legal rifle, with the 10 round mags?

http://www.del-ton.com/Rifle_Kit_p/rkt101-m.htm

 

[Jackal]

Why bother with the kit when you can just get this? http://www.gandermountain.com/modpe...7Mw&siteID=TnL5HPStwNw-See.LRcOKOSEZZAGzs5w3w

 

[Sam1911]

Interesting, but I don't think that's exactly what he wants. And, he asked me about building one, not buying one assembled.

Thanks, though.

 

[Jackal]

Buy the Colt, keep the upper. Sell the lower for a tidy profit

 

[HankB]

The MD police are get real picky about it being an HBAR specifically. They told business they had to stop selling mid contour rifles. They say it must be labeled hbar or heavy contour (although rumor is anything .750 or thicker is good). Not sure how this would work if you manufactured your own barrels.

Police aren't necessarily good sources of information on the law - if you're in MD and want an AR pattern rifle, you should check on the actual wording of the law for yourself and see what it really says, rather than rely on third- hand interpretations of what some cop somewhere allegedly said, especially if some of the information is based on a rumor of what's acceptable.

 

[scythefwd]

does MD have anything like VA's VCDL? Maybe the NRA could give ya some guidance on this that is actually backed by a lawyer reading the law?

 

[Plinkin' Logs]

Maryland has MSI (Maryland Shall Issue). The problem with the Sb281 law here is that it is unenforceable.

First we have the fact that no where in the law does it define what is and is not a HBAR. No where yet has there been a definition of what HBAR means because the law is too new and no one has challenged it. Some would argue a Socom is a heavy barrel because Colt says its "heavy barreled" on their website.

Second, ARs were legal here in all forms prior to October 2013, and if you bought one then (or a lower then) you can slap whatever you want on it. Unless police go around asking every AR owner when they bought their rifle and then spending weeks tracking it down, how can they tell a pre-sb281 from a post sb281. I have a pre-sb281 lower, that I can put anything on, but the HBAR I bought, technically I can only put HBARs on.

Third, then there is 80% lowers. Technically you are only supposed to build those into HBARs after October 2013, but 80% have no serial # and are impossible to track. They have no idea when you bought one.

Its completely unenforceable and puts guys like us who want to follow the law in a real head-scratcher position. This is what happens when you have people that know nothing about firearms make laws for them.

P.S. There is a court case right now that MSI is pushing for in court (Kolbe vs Hogan) to try and overturn SB281. So hopefully we won't have to deal with this crap for too much longer.

 

[Plinkin' Logs]

Thanks Plinkin' Logs!

So this sounds like it would be a MD legal rifle, with the 10 round mags?

http://www.del-ton.com/Rifle_Kit_p/rkt101-m.htm

Yep sure would. And we can get 30rd magazines, just got to travel a little ways to the VA, WV, or Penn state line to pick them up

 

[Sam1911]

Thanks! Really appreciated!

 

[Sam1911]

So, the nuttier question would be, to me, it seems slightly unclear whether this would be MD legal or not:



Certainly far from "tactical" but is it an H-BAR?

 

[DP03]

How can a gun enthusiast stand to live in such a screwed up place?

Quality of life I think. MD is the wealthiest state in the nation, and what that translates to many is a better quality of life than many other places. I love shooting, and I do so here in MD, although having to put up with the inconvenience of their stupid gun laws. But I can also drop a boat in the Chesapeake Bay within 10 mins of where I live. I love the water, so I would rule out many of the states based on that. There are plenty of jobs here. The weather offers a nice 4 seasons. Most of the school systems in MD are at the very top of the nations best. I could go on..........

I think gun laws should be on any gun enthusiasts list when searching for a location to live. But surely there are many other things that should go into that choice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/22/americas-richest-states_n_3972653.html

And, I should add, that I was brought here via my first job out of college, and we've been here ever since. That was at a time where I wasn't nearly as avid about guns as I am now. Would I have turned down a good job based on the gun laws? Back then, obviously no. Now? Maybe, but it would be a decision that included the other things mentioned above.

 

[masakari]

MD is a scary place for gun owners. It's a shame because it's surrounded by states with good or great gun laws.