HD Shotgun? Marine, Police, Magnum, 3.5" ?

[bobby68]

Like the many others here i am considering adding a shotgun or two for homedefense/survival mode for my wife and i, both smaller people.

I can spend extra $ if necessary but of course don't want to buy unnecessary features. I live in California near the Ocean, and like in the New Orleans situation i wonder about the need for the rustproofing of the Marine Models. We already have some rifles and pistols, but i would like to have the firepower of the Shotguns.

1. I do not understand when i would need/want to use slugs, rifled barrels, changeable barrels. Can you please elaborate?

2. Why would i want/not want a police model?

3. What are Magnum shells? What are 3.5" shells and why is remington offering a rebate if you buy a shotgun with that capacity?

4. How rustproof are the non-marine and the marine models. I have a spine injury that makes it very difficult for me to spend time/energy cleaning guns. I will if i have to, but this is a problem.

5. Express models... How do these lower cost models compare to the police/magnum models? Is it really just a matter of nicer finish or is the reliability comprimised. Is it just a matter of working a new shotgun in to get the smooth pumping/ loading to a good reliability? Since i do expect to be backed up with pistols, and hopefully another shotgun, i would consider buying two low costers compared to only one super duper, if they work right.

I realize that there is much info already posted, and i have been sifting through it, but any help is appreciated. Thank You.

 

[det.pat]

the 870 marine has a rust ressistant finish, but is really reflective, this may be a tactical consideration. it also may not if you need the protection more than stealth. with your health concerns, you will probably not be sneaking around the bush much. the 3 inch chamber is most useful, even if you don't regularly use 3 inch ammo just because it eliminates possible supply issues, ie you can use whatever 12 gauge ammo comes your way without complications. the 3.5 chambering is not necessary or even desirable in my opinion. the particular model you buy is mostly a matter of taste, as the 870 can be moded in so many ways that they can't all be mentioned here, but an extended magazine and some type of sights are very helpful, as is a weapon mounted light. these things are optional, however as a 12 gauge shotgun is an awsome close range weapon even in plain, factory trim.
i like 870's, and saiga 12's, but your state, i believe has banned the saiga's, and an 870 is second to none.
pat

 

[driven]

Considerations

bobby:
You mention that you and your wife are smaller than average. Also that you have a spine injury. The first question I'd ask is how much recoil can you tolerate? To relate it to something you already know, how large a rife can you handle? Have you fired any shotguns? A pump action 12 ga. delivers a pretty good kick with standard loads. If you are recoil adverse then an auto. loading, like a Remington 1100, and possibly a 20 gauge might be what you are looking for.

I'll try to answer some of your questions:
As a lot of folks here can tell you, slugs are good for penetrating barriers and for longer range (100 yards or so) shooting. Buckshot is only good for about 40 yards when your bacon is on the line.

The police Rem. 870 has most features folksl like in a HD shotgun and the finish is parkerized, so it'll hold up better by the ocean than a blued steel finish. There are also other aftermarket finishes available that you can have applied.

For strickly HD you don't want a rifles barrel (slugs only). The shorter the barrel the more "handy" the shottie becomes and is easier to move around confined spaces.

I'm sure others here will cover anything I've missed.

 

[dfariswheel]

In order:

1. For real HD you don't need to worry about slugs, rifled barrels ore interchangeable barrels.
As above, slugs are for long range shooting. In HD situations, slugs really turn the shotgun into nothing more than a large caliber musket.

Rifled barrels are for use ONLY with special slugs that have a sabot, or jacket over the slug. These are, again strictly for long range shooting.

A big advantage of the shotgun is it's adaptability, and by switching barrels, you can use the gun for everything from a HD gun to a bird gun, to a clay pigeon gun, to just about anything you want.

In the case of an HD gun, a 18" to 20" barrel is perfect.

2. The Police gun is the top-of-the-line line in quality. The Remington 870 Police is built to a higher standard of fit and finish.

Here's a link explaining the differences between an Express and the Police:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159814&highlight=870+police

3. Magnum means something quite different with shotgun shells.
In pistols and rifles Magnum means MORE POWER, higher velocities.
In shot shells, Magnum means MORE SHOT.
Magnum shot shells are not more powerful, and don't usually have more velocity.
Shotguns are "percentage" guns. The more shot put out, the better the chances are of at least some of the shot hitting the target.

Magnum shot shells simply contain more shot than standard shells.
Magnum shells come in standard 2 3/4", 3", and in the new "Super Magnum 3 1/2".

In real HD situations, Magnum shells are not only not needed, they're inadvisable.
Magnum shells do put out more shot, but at the penalty of increased recoil and muzzle blast.
This can actually reduce the speed at which you can fire followup shot.

In fact, today more and more police departments and home owners are buying REDUCED RECOIL shells.
These new shell either reduce the number of shot, or the powder charge to give less recoil, while still being effective.

With the Magnum shells being more suited for hunting applications, the new Reduce Recoil shells are the way to go for real HD.

The 3 1/2" Super Magnum was specifically developed for use against high flying geese and other game application.
Recoil is HEAVY. So heavy that no reasonable person uses it for HD.

Remington, like many companies offers specials to increase sales of something that may not be selling enough.
Since the Super Magnum is a special purpose gun, and recoil is beyond what most people can handle, it's just not suitable for HD.

4. The plated Magnum Marine and other such guns were intended for use around boats and salt water, where the guns will rust quickly.
The plated finishes will HELP protect the gun from rust, but WILL NOT prevent it.
In many cases the inside of the guns barrel, magazine tube, and other interior areas are NOT plated and will rust if neglected.

Because of this, the gun will need at least some maintenance after firing, including cleaning the barrel.
The plated finish will allow the exterior to be wiped off from time to time.

In the case of the Remington 870 Police, the guns are given a military grade parkerized finish that Remington says is 60% more durable than a blued finish.
These guns are sprayed with hot cosmoline at the factory as a rust preventive during shipping.

This cosmoline MUST be removed before use, and Remington recommends spraying the gun, inside and out, with something like Rem-Oil or CLP Breakfree.
This dissolves and removes the cosmoline and impregnates the rough parkerizing with Teflon lubricant.
This offers a high level of protection to the gun, and it should be well protected from rust.

All that's necessary is, from time to time , apply more lube to refresh the coating.

In most HD use, rust is not a problem as long as the gun receives minimal care. Magnum Marine and Police guns are proven to be quite durable.

5. See the above link as to the differences between the Express and Police.
The Express is basically the same steel receivered gun as the Police model, just with a few plastic parts, and a less-well deburred and rougher finish.

The Express finish is more prone to rust than the Magnum Marine or Police, but applying a coat of rust preventing lube will protect it.

In your specific case, depending on how well you can handle recoil from a 12 gauge loaded with Reduced Recoil buckshot loads, I'd likely look into a Remington Express home defense model, with or without the extended magazine.

If you have the money to spare, either the Magnum Marine or Police model is Cadillac quality, although it is a little harder to buy a Police model due to the fact that some dealers don't want to special order one for you.

If you have problems with recoil, I'd recommend a 20 gauge gun.

Because of the more complex mechanism, higher level of maintenance required, and less reliable operation, I don't usually recommend semi-auto guns.

Here's a link to Remington's Express home defense guns:
http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870expsyn18.htm

Here's a link to Remington" police guns:
http://www.remingtonle.com

 

[Denko]

Bobby68,I was just going to post some similar questions,so I will join this thread.I have been to Rem.'s site and read the TFL link.I am undecided between a police model and the marine model.Would the Robar NP3 finish be more rust resistant than the coating on the 870 marine? I would like a shorter LOP than that which comes with the 870 marine.Will a youth stock work on the marine model? Can the synthetic stock be cut down 1.5 inches?Thanks

 

[dfariswheel]

I'm not sure about the Robar versus the Marine Magnum plated finish.

As for stocks, the easiest "fix" is to just buy a shorter stock from Speedfeed or Hogue.

Also, the factory synthetics can be shortened.

 

[fisherman66]

There are 12 g reduced recoil loads. I'd keep my options open with the 12 and plethora of ammo. (And you can load more into the magazine.)

I think the marine version is the best looking HD gun, but I have no practical knowledge of their rust resistance. If I lived on the coast it would be the one I'd choose.

 

[Roadwild17]

Take a look at the mossy 590's with the perk finish. Probably a little cheaper then the remmy and work just as well in most situations. Its the one im planing on getting next .

 

[Strongbad]

It sounds to me like you might be going a little over the top with the the HD concept if you're looking at the police models etc. If it's just simple home defense, then keep it simple. It's not like this gun is going to be riding around in your squad car and you're going to have to go knock down someone's door and blast through walls with it. Since you've got some physical limitations I'd go with the 20 ga., and to keep the cost down I'd just make it an 870 Express. Parkerized no frills finish and will function just fine. The action might be a little stiff at first, but a box or two of shells through it at the skeet range and that will be a thing of the past. If you keep the gun lightly oiled, you wont have to really worry about maintenance. My shotguns are working guns and get thousands of rounds put through them at the skeet range and in the field and I don't really do a lot of cleaning on them. I just wipe them down with a light coat of oil like Rem-oil and put them away. Aside from my auto's, my pump guns or over/unders don't fuss about being meticulously cleaned. It's just not necessary. Not to mention that from the sound of it, you're not going to be shooting your guns nearly as much as I do mine. That being the case, I think all of the fuss about Police model shotguns etc. is unnecessary. An 870 20 ga. is going to do more than enough damage to any would-be assailant to either kill them out right, or at the very least hurt them so bad as to no longer be a threat.

Last but not least, the best solution to an armed conflict is to not have one at all unless you can't avoid it.

 

[Denko]

In many cases the inside of the guns barrel, magazine tube, and other interior areas are NOT plated and will rust if neglected.
Have you taken an 870 marine apart? It seems silly to have a rust resistant exterior finish and leave the interior uncoated.I can keep the outside oiled,it's the inside that's harder to get to.

Thanks for reminding me about the Hogue.

I do live on the coast of the NW,so rust is a big concern.I have plenty of stuff to maintain,so I want a shotgun that I can almost forget about.If the marine version is coated on the inside that is what I will get.Thanks again.

 

[bobby68]

thank you everyone for responding... iam interested in responding in detail but have not been feeling well.. i am still recovering from back surgery.

But i do think that i can handle the recoil. I own a 30 06 and that is not a problem. mostly it is prolonged movement that aggravates my pain levels. and holding weight for extended periods was a problem but the artificial disc that they have placed in my spine is supposed to help, and so far it does.

but thank everyone and i will hope to post more soon

 

[wanderinwalker]

I'll just chime in to warn that if you are smaller statured and have back-issues, I would NOT get a 3.5" chambered shotgun, especially in a pump. My brother has a Benelli Nova that will kick the stuffing out of you with a 3.5" turkey load. I suspect a steel-shot load wouldn't pose anywhere near as big an issue, but it would still not rank as an entertaining experience in my book. Both of us are average stature and have lots of experience with things like .30-06s, 8mm Mausers (firing surplus ammo) and similar power rifles.

A standard 12 or 20ga 870 Express with the 18.5-20" barrel and 3" would be adequate.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Thanks for bringing up the rebate------that means I just stole one.

Full camo Super Mag Express---Walmart price $299 less employee discount-$29=$270+ 7% sales tax=$288.90 less -$50 rebate=$238.90 total out the door cost.

Or in other words $220 retail cost.

 

[Slater]

From Remington's website:

"A highly durable 12-gauge utility gun that resists corrosion on land or water. Electroless nickel plating covers all metal, including the inside of the barrel and receiver. The synthetic stock has generous checkering for positive control. Comes with 18" Cylinder barrel with single-bead front sight, six-round magazine, padded Cordura® sling, swivel studs, and the revolutionary recoil-reducing R3® recoil pad."

Just as a "gee whiz", all metal on the Marine Magnum is plated, according to Remington. 'Course, this model is much more pricey than a vanilla 870.

 

[Strongbad]

FWIW, just because you buy a shotgun that'll shoot 3.5" mags doesn't mean that you have to shoot 3.5" mags, but atleast you have the ability to do so. I can't imagine using anything that is made in 3.5" for HD anyway. In short, what the hell difference does it make if you get a shotgun that happens to be able to handle 3.5's?

 

[conan]

Benelli M2 Inertia Driven semi-auto

 

[deputy tom]

For HD and physical limitations,I'd say get a pair of Remm.Youth Express 20 ga w/21" bbls and shoot light field loads in them.tom.