Help for a new guy 9mm

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1911in9mm

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I’m still pretty new to reloading, and yes I can read load manuals. Thing is I’m going to try out the RMR TCFP MatchWinner in 124 gr. and no one I’ve found has “published load data” for said bullet. I’ve plunked it in 3 guns I will shoot it in the most and get 1.077 as the longest COAL that plunks all 3, with a .003 margin off the lands for the shortest one. I’m thinking of trying out VVN330 at 4.6 grains, N340 at 4.6 grains and Auto Comp at 4.9 grains. Not looking for any power factor yet, just for functionality at the moment. Won’t be able to chrono for a few weeks yet to make adjustments to reach a target velocity. (1125 to 1150) but do these starting charges seem rational? Any help is appreciated.
 
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N330 & N340 work very well in 9MM, and Vihtavuori has plenty of data on their website. 3N37 is good if you want to push velocity. I have never tried Auto Comp.

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Welcome to THR.

RMR TCFP MatchWinner in 124 gr. ... 1.077 as the longest COAL ... Auto Comp at 4.9 grains

... looking for ... functionality at the moment ... target velocity. (1125 to 1150) but do these starting charges seem rational? Any help is appreciated.
OAL looks to be about right.

As to AutoComp, I found I needed to push to near max load data to produce optimal accuracy. Hodgdon lists 1120 fps as max velocity for 125 gr FMJ - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
125 gr Sierra FMJ AutoComp COL 1.090" Start 4.7 gr (1,055 fps) 28,900 PSI - Max 5.2 gr (1,120 fps) 33,300 PSI

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Thanks Walkalong,
I’ve looked over Vhit’s and Winchester data. But none of it directly pertains to the RMR bullet. It’s a starting point towards using the MatchWinner but not verbatim information. I guess I’m hoping folks with much more experience could offer their opinions, either those starting loads seem ok, seem high, or something else. Those were what my meager mind said should be middle of the road.
 
I guess I’m hoping folks with much more experience could offer their opinions, either those starting loads seem ok, seem high, or something else. Those were what my meager mind said should be middle of the road.
I just measured some bullets and most of my 124 gr FMJ measured around .600" while RMR FP MW measured around .553", which means RMR 124 gr FP MW will end up with shallower bullet seating depth compared to 124 gr FMJ loaded to same OAL.

Since Hodgdon used 125 gr Sierra FMJ (I interchange load data for 124 gr with 125 gr as many jacketed bullet weight vary by 1.0 gr ;)) at 1.090" OAL and your OAL is 1.080" (for simplicity of calculation), your bullet seating depth is about .040" shallower.

So using 4.9 gr of AutoComp as start charge when published start charge is 4.7 gr should be OK.
 
RMR TCFP MatchWinner in 124 gr. ... VVN330 at 4.6 grains, N340 at 4.6 grains ... target velocity. (1125 to 1150)
As to Vihtavuori N330 and N340, following are from their website - https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/?cartridge=89
124 gr Hornady FMJ/FP N330 COL 1.142" Start 4.8 gr (1108 fps) - Max 5.2 gr (1178 fps)

124 gr Hornady FMJ/FP N340 COL 1.142" Start 5.3 gr (1139 fps) - Max 5.7 gr (1214 fps)
Since they used longer 1.142" OAL for similar FP nose profile bullet (Hornady 125 gr FP listed as .541" in length and RMR 124 gr FP MW measures .553"), and you are using shorter than published OAL of 1.077", I would suggest you adjust the start charges and use 4.6 gr for N330 and 5.0 gr for N340.
 
N330 & N340 work very well in 9MM ... I have never tried Auto Comp.
At your suggestion of N340 more suitable for higher velocities, when I visited my sister/BIL earlier this week, I went ahead and picked up a can of N340 along with more N320.

I hope to do some comparison testing of N340 with BE-86, WSF, AutoComp and CFE Pistol.
 
bds,
Thanks for the responses, reading them if I understand them fully. In the absence of “exact data” for the bullet I hope to use, try to establish length of bullet for a published load then determine case volume after seating vs. in my case the MatchWinner and make weight adjustments based on that information. I guess I feel better knowing I guesstimated 4.6 on N330 the same as you recommend. And I was at least in the ballpark on N340 & WAC.
 
My ultimate goal is to come up with 1 bullet that works well. Settle on 1 powder that will push them to 1125-1150 FPS. But have proven loads for 6 to 10 powders in case there is another great component drought again. Once I burn up the VV powder I have, although it works well it’s spendy, I’m hoping to find a great domestic powder to take its place. Once I find something acceptable, then hoard it up in multiple year quantities.
 
I’m still pretty new to reloading, and yes I can read load manuals. Thing is I’m going to try out the RMR TCFP MatchWinner in 124 gr. and no one I’ve found has “published load data” for said bullet. I’ve plunked it in 3 guns I will shoot it in the most and get 1.077 as the longest COAL that plunks all 3, with a .003 margin off the lands for the shortest one. I’m thinking of trying out VVN330 at 4.6 grains, N340 at 4.6 grains and Auto Comp at 4.9 grains. Not looking for any power factor yet, just for functionality at the moment. Won’t be able to chrono for a few weeks yet to make adjustments to reach a target velocity. (1125 to 1150) but do these starting charges seem rational? Any help is appreciated.

For paper & plinking I use Alliant Sport Pistol 3.9 grains under a 124 grain match winner @ 1.080 out of my Walther Q5 if I want to kick it up a notch WSF & BE86 are both nice options in my opinion.
 
Once I burn up the VV powder I have ... I’m hoping to find a great domestic powder to take its place. Once I find something acceptable, then hoard it up in multiple year quantities.
+1 for Sport Pistol and many are finding it a good replacement for Titegroup/N320/W231/HP-38 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-different-labels.797388/page-6#post-10806193

goal is to ... Settle on 1 powder that will push them to 1125-1150 FPS. But have proven loads for 6 to 10 powders in case there is another great component drought again.
+1 for WSF and BE-86 for loading higher velocity full power loads yet flexible enough to still produce accurate mid-range loads. For decades, I used WSF to reload duplicate factory JHP loads for practice using same bulk Speer Gold Dot HP and Remington Golden Saber JHP bullets but since BE-86 came out, I switched as it produces more accurate loads.
 
FWIW:

WST is hard to beat for target loads in the 9mm's. Not hand/cherry picked by any means, nothing more then the test target used that day. A 1150fps load doing a 10-shot group @ 50ft.
N6XBlbc.jpg

The bullets used for that target above are home cast/coated bullets from free range scrap using a Mihec mold that casts a 125gr hp bullet. The firearm used is a box stock springfield armory range officer chambered in 9mm
a8fXZPh.jpg
 
I’ve got quite a few contenders on my list of powders to try. WSF, WAC, BE-86, ASP, Silhouette, True Blue, and HS-6. Looks like I might also try WST and 244 as time allows. Whichever powder “feels” the most like a factory Federal 124 gr. HST loading will be the one I stock up on. The others I’ll keep load information for the inevitable rainy day.
 
Disclaimer: Following WST loads are unpublished by Hodgdon and use them at your own risk.

5.0 gr WST ... Mihec mold casts a 125gr hp bulle
While WST produced accurate loads for me, it can get spikey at the top and Hodgdon does not publish load data for 9mm.

IME, charges higher than 4.3-4.5 gr will result in compressed powder loads (Depending on bullet type/OAL used) and likely 5.0 gr with HP bullet will compress powder charge even more. FYI, disclaimer guidelines for posting extra heavy loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-posting-extra-heavy-load-information.27444/

While higher charges than 4.3 gr is required to meet power factor, for posting purposes on THR, I use 4.0 gr load (Which is not a compressed load) that still produces one of more accurate loads. Below is comparison 25 yard groups of WST and BE-86 (Notice longer OAL used to prevent powder compression)

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Thing is I’m going to try out the RMR TCFP MatchWinner in 124 gr. and no one I’ve found has “published load data” for said bullet.
That's true for a lot of bullet/length combinations. One tip, the hodgdon online reloading and other published data sometimes has both 124 and 125gr data for various bullets. Eg, Hodgdon lists a 125 SIE FMJ at 1.090, pretty close to what your parameters are.
N330 and N340 are well behaved but most of the VV data is at 1.142". I've chrono'd the RMR FP MW with 4.9gr of N330 at 1.140 out of a 226 and it was around 1008fps. 4.8 of N340 at 1.140 was about 1023fps.

You've gotten a lot of good advice above, if I were you and at the "new" stages for these powders, I'd select one of your guns that allows you to load longer than the floor value of three guns. That way you can test at a longer COL and get some chrono data as you reduce length. I can tell you from first hand experience with Titegroup that reducing COL gets you in to dangerous territory very quickly. I do love/hate Titegroup, but some powders are more sensitive to the case volume than others. I've found VV is well behaved in reducing the COL from the published data but that was my experience.
Your list of powders is impressive, I'll just add my competition load is now ASP, it was N320 or WSF. But that's also with a 147gr bullet. You may also find the RMR RN will plunk a lot longer than the TCs. One last powder on the slow side you may want to consider is CFE Pistol. Good luck.
 
I can tell you from first hand experience with Titegroup that reducing COL gets you in to dangerous territory very quickly. I do love/hate Titegroup, but some powders are more sensitive to the case volume than others.
+1. While I like Titegroup for 9mm as it produces accurate loads, it does burn hot and violent. :D And if you experience significant bullet setback for small case volume 9mm, pressure can rise/spike in a hurry.

Titegroup is one of few powders that could squeeze accuracy out of even plated bullets not known for accuracy. Here's 25 yard groups of 3.8/4.0 gr loads using Berry's regular plated 124 gr RN (Solid base, not hollow base) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-pistol-reloaders.746062/page-2#post-9382933

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I’ve got quite a few contenders on my list of powders to try. WSF, WAC, BE-86, ASP, Silhouette, True Blue, and HS-6. Looks like I might also try WST and 244 as time allows. .

I for now have my powders whittled down to 3. AA#2, hp-38 and Ramshot Silhouette. The Silhouette runs the best in all 3 calibers I shoot; 380auto, 9mm and 45acp. The HP-38 is exceptional in the 9mm with every bullet I've tried and is pretty economical. Does OK in the 45 and I've given up trying it in the 380. So far the testing I've done with the AA#2 it too does a very good job in all three calibers.

Because there is no hazmat on bullets I have been buying whatever pistol bullets have been on sale but mostly Berry's and Xtreme and will next be trying the RMR. Then maybe some coated lead.
 
"Recipes" for off brand bullets are scarce.
Go by your Plunk for OAL, not a print number for some other make in some other gun. Yours is pretty short, be cautious and see post 5 for approximations.

In the Panic shortages, I found 9mm data for 26 powders. Two were in stock. A friend tried CFE-Pistol and did not go back to his previous choice when it became available.
I load 9mm with HP38 and have tested loads with Bullseye, just in case.

An old thread on loading for the "feel" of a preferred factory JHP and not just velocity ended up with HS-6.
 
“A man’s got to know his limitations”. I’m blissfully aware I know just enough about reloading to be abundantly cautious doing it. That’s mostly why my powder list to try is towards the slower scale of 9mm powders. By reading they tend to be a trifle more forgiving than the faster ones. I know there are several faster powders I may find later in my learning curve that may do what I want, but I’m saving them for a more experienced day. My Jedi master reloader passed away almost a year ago. He left me with a mountain of equipment and supplies and newfound love of reloading. And just enough knowledge to be dangerous. So I honor his memory by furthering my knowledge of reloading and shooting. By all rights I never would have reloaded were it not for him. 9mm is so cheap and available and that is all I shoot. (my wife doesn’t like anything other than the 9). But upon his passing I got 4 presses, powder, primers, scales, etc. etc. So it was impossible not to carry his passion as far as I possibly can.
 
Good for you 1911in9mm. Its a blessing that you honor your friend with such thoughts and memory. Most of us, if not all, stand on the shoulders of others as we learn and enjoy our sport. We miss those friends but always take them along in memory.
 
That’s mostly why my powder list to try is towards the slower scale of 9mm powders. By reading they tend to be a trifle more forgiving than the faster ones. I know there are several faster powders I may find later in my learning curve that may do what I want, but I’m saving them for a more experienced day.
Don't fall into Jedi mind tricks of others. ;)

My reloading mentor was a bullseye match shooter who was OCD about details and consistency. He said while it's good to look at what others are doing but until you know WHY they are doing it, you cannot just assume what they are doing is correct or for the right reason. He endorsed conducting my own load development and range testing as there are differences in pistols/barrels and one load that shoots well in one pistol/barrel may not shoot well in a different pistol/barrel that prefer a different bullet/powder/charge/OAL.

I suggest the same for you and conduct your own load development/range testing using our "guidelines/suggestions/recommendations" as we have myth busted many COMMON INTERNET RELOADING NOTIONS many of us took for granted - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-10966692

You are making an assumption that simply using a slower burning powder will provide you a margin of pressure safety which is not necessarily true. I think what should be "gleaned" from that notion is using a powder that will be evident when double charged. Since most slower burning powders use larger charges, they tend to overflow the case when double charged BUT this notion is also not true when using denser powders. You see what I mean about "assumptions"? ;) Powders like Red Dot/Promo are very fast burning yet when double charged (Due to them being large flake fluffy powders), will often overflow the case (depending on caliber and bullet weight).

If you are concerned about chamber pressures, consider this. Slower burning powders tend to burn more efficiently at near max/max load data to produce optimal accuracy hence must be pushed hard. Faster burning powders can produce efficient enough powder burn even at lower start charges to produce acceptable accuracy hence most lighter recoil (LOWER CHAMBER PRESSURE) target loads are developed with faster burning than W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol burn rate powders.

And also keep in mind, published load data were developed using BRAND NEW brass but us reloaders often use MIXED RANGE BRASS with unknown reload history and condition of brass. In recent years, advent of wet tumbling and 9mm Major USPSA load brought on potentially "thinned" case wall brass from overly expanded applications but due to absolute cleaning from wet tumbling with stainless steel pins, they look like any other brass to unsuspecting reloaders (There's a reason why 9mm Major shooters only use brass once and leave them on the ground :fire:).

So for these reasons, when mixed range brass is used, I endorse using lower pressure mid-to-high range load data loads instead of near max/max load data loads. WSF and BE-86 are two flexible powders I recommend as they can produce accurate loads even at mid-range load data but can produce higher velocity/full power loads also (But I reserve known/verified once-fired brass I saw go from factory box to pistol for max load data applications). Since I use mixed range brass, I often use lighter target loads with W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol and faster burning powders loaded to around 130 power factor (124/125 gr bullets pushed to around 1050 fps).
Whichever powder “feels” the most like a factory Federal 124 gr. HST loading will be the one I stock up on. The others I’ll keep load information for the inevitable rainy day.
This is another Jedi mind trick you don't want to fall into. ;) There is "factory" like muzzle velocity vs "factory" like FELT RECOIL and two are not the same. If you want to shoot loads that have similar "felt recoil" as factory ammunition, you can readily accomplish this by using faster burning powders loaded to mid-to-high range load data to provide plenty of "snappy felt recoil" of factory ammunition BUT muzzle velocity may not be as high as listed on the box.

Often factory ammunition are loaded with cheapest available bulk lot of powder used to load rounds to certain velocities without much regards to felt recoil. These powders ammunition manufacturers use are not available to us reloaders in "canister" form with specific burn rates (Only exception to this verified by Alliant is the use of BE-86 for decades to load factory ammunition). Nice thing about reloading is that we can use slower burn rate powders (Slower than Unique/Universal/BE-86/WSF) and MATCH OR EXCEED factory velocities BUT END UP WITH LESS FELT RECOIL that feels less snappy and more of a "push".

As to factory vs target load point of aim (POA) vs point of impact (POI), when I compared various premium factory JHP like Remington Golden Saber, Winchester Black Talon/SXT/Ranger-T, Speer Gold Dot and Winchester PDX1 with 130 PF target loads using W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol, POA to POI deviation was less than one inch at defensive shooting distance of 7-10 yards. So another notion of "I like to practice with loads close to factory ammunition" is, well ... less than true.

"These are not the droids you are looking for ... Move along ... Move along" :rofl:
 
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The others I’ll keep load information for the inevitable rainy day

... have proven loads for 6 to 10 powders in case there is another great component drought again.
This is a smart plan as I have seen several component shortages during the past 28 years of reloading and looking back, I wish I had stocked up more when components were cheaper and more plentiful.

BTW, components are cheaper than they have been in years and plentiful so you are entering reloading at a good time to stock up. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

BUT if you are approaching from stocking up for component shortage, you may want to consider component flexibility instead of optimal accuracy/velocity. To me, BE-86/WSF are flexible powders that can load most semi-auto calibers to higher velocities/full power but most of us do not shoot full power loads, especially with mixed range brass with known reload history and condition of brass. So most of my range blasting/plinking rounds are loaded lighter to target velocities with faster burn rate than W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol powders.

FYI, for general purpose range practice/plinking loads, I now use Promo (Which has similar burn rate as Red Dot but with different density) as I can produce accurate enough practice loads economically. Although it's the cheapest pistol powder you can buy (around $115/8 lbs), it's also my favored/preferred powder for carbine loads that use blowback action (Think faster sealing of case mouth with chamber wall before bolt moves back) - https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/alliant-promo-8/

Here's my Promo carbine load loaded to just under 1500 fps the bullets were rated to (Soon to be replaced by RMR 95 gr FMJ pushed towards 1600 fps) compared to W231/HP-38 at 50 yards - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...blended-promo-for-more-accurate-loads.841097/

I think slight edge of Promo for carbine load is near 100% case fill load vs "powder forward" when rounds are chambered leaving some air gap in front of primer flash (As you will find out, some powders are more position sensitive than others and benefit from 100% case fill ... hence why some of us use shorter than typical OAL ... We will talk about the virtues of OAL and powder case fill vs accuracy later).

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YBOT,
He was a hoot. Old Korean War veteran, sense of humor dry as a popcorn fart. He was. Dillon man, so I thought I was one as well. I’d mentioned one day I’d wished Mike Dillon had liked green more than blue. He had everything Blue ever made, and several of them. When he passed it was decided I was getting a 1050 case and bullet fed, a 650, a 550, a SDB and a BNIB RCBS Pro Chucker 5. I turned the 1050 down so his sons could have 2 apiece. He said those were for loaders that liked shooting more than loading. I never liked the 650 or 550, so I was going to keep the SDB. Until I was about to sell the Chucker and happened to open it to make certain it was complete. That’s when I found the letter he’d put inside the box. He’d bought it, given it the once over, and “fixed” everything RCBS got wrong on it. Just so I could have a green press. He was truly one of a kind. I only had 2 years with him before he really started to decline. But so long as my mind works, I will always remember him.
 
my wife doesn’t like anything other than the 9
I provide (rather "share" as PIF) defensive point shooting instruction using full size/compact/subcompact pistols and use the flexibility of faster burn rate powders to have different target loads on hand for training purposes.

Below are 25 yard groups of my training target loads using RMR 115 gr FMJ loaded with Promo (Shorter OAL for near 100% case fill). They are not the most accurate loads but good enough for low cost training. 4.4-4.5 gr load has comparable factory Winchester white box felt recoil (actually slightly less) that provides near factory felt recoil for training and 4.1-4.2 gr load has milder felt recoil that is very pleasant to use in compacts/subcompacts for training. The 4.1-4.2 gr load is especially popular with lady shooters using Glock 19/Shield 9mm/Taurus G2 and once they master the essence of defensive point shooting, shooting full factory and even 40S&W with Glock 23 becomes non-issue.

BTW, here's my point shooting drill I do with eyes closed (Yes, eyes closed) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902245

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