Help in identifying a Civil War musket

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davelid

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Hi All, I have inherited a Civil War musket that was presumably used by one of my great great grandfathers who served in an Ohio regiment. The rifle came with original black sling, bayonet (fits the gun) and scabbard, belt and US buckle, cartridge box, and cap box. Today I stripped the gun, placed the barrel in a padded vice with the intent of removing the breech plug and nipple. To my amazement, both came out with only a slight tap with a rubber mallet on the wrenches. I shined a light down the bore and was nearly blinded - very clean and no evidence of chamber erosion or rust. I am very excited by the condition of this gun to say the least!

I had always assumed this was a Springfield 1861, but now I am almost positive that it is not. It is ~.558 caliber with a 37.25" barrel, 52.5" overall length. It appears to be bright steel with no trace of bluing, even in the area protected by the stock. All furniture is steel with no brass. It is a two band, not three band gun. There is no large US eagle on the right lock plate; there is a very small, .25" eagle at the rear of the lock plate. The lock plate is also stamped with 862 or 662. The top rear of the barrel is stamped with R E H D on top with E F O W I R L S underneath in a circular pattern. The underside of the barrel near the chamber (covered by the stock) is stamped with a V, an M and a .25" eagle. The flash chamber (correct term?) seems forged with the barrel - at least it does not have an obvious screw to attach it like the Springfield. The left side of the stock opposite the lock plate has a metal plate that holds the two bolts that attach to the lock plate. The rear sight is a single flip up with a groove on top and two "windows" inside. The stock has FF1862 on the bottom near the butt plate.

I have searched the net for pics and have seen nothing quite like this. Any ideas? Also,any reason to not shoot this gun - at least with mild ~40 gr loads?

I have some pics, but am not sure how to get them posted.

Thanks!
Dave
 
Some of the Austrian lock plates are marked with the last three digits of the year date 862 would be 1862.

I believe one of their rifles had sights like you describe.

Remember that the North imported every thing from Europe the CSA had not contracted for and issued a lot of that stuff to state militias.

I was confused by some of your descriptions. Does the barrel have a chamber area of smaller diameter than the rifled bore? Austrians again used some rifles that had the bullet expanded into the rifling by hammering it against a shoulder where the smaller chamber meets the rifled bore.

Someone better than me can likely point you at an image posting tutorial for THR. If I can manage posting images, and I have, anyone can. Just not good at explaining it.

-kBob
 
The barrel seems to be the same diameter from the muzzle to the breech plug.
 
Just did a little googling and noted the Lorenz rifle had three types of sights depending on what rifling they had.

One was basically a fixed rear sight. The next was L shaped and had a short battle sight that when folded with the long leg up showed to windows with a small "V" shape in each and a "V" notch on the very top. It appears there were two screws on some to allow the plate with windows to be adjusted for range. The third was more like the Enfield 1853 rear sight.

You might google "Lorenz Rifles" and "Lorenz Rifle Sights" as I did and see if that is what you have.

Lorenz rifles were technically .54 when made. Many if not most in US service were rebored to .58 and re rifled, but apparently not all and few if any of the ones used by the South were rebored.

Please get back with us about what you have.

-kBob
 
When I was at Appormatox Court House decades ago there was mention of a near by road being cordaroyed with the surrendered CSA rifles. I have always wondered if some metal "shooter" has ever come across it and if any of the locks and parts would even be recognizable.

I would bet there are some Lorenz rifle parts scattered about there.

I was thinking maybe this rifle was not issued, but a trophy brought home by a victor.

I also understand a fair number of Lorenz rifles in US arsenals were sold to civilians after the war and many cut down for civilian use with many having the rifling bored out and used as shotguns.

-kBob
 
kBob - many thanks! My rifle is an 1862 Lorenz, complete with FF (for Ferdinand Fruwrith) markings. It apparently has the intermediate adjustable sights. Now I need to fire it at least a few times.

Dave
 
Sounds like a Lorentz. The caliber is a giveaway. If you could post info over at the North-South Skirmish Association BB, they can provide more information.
 
davelid: "I have some pics, but am not sure how to get them posted"

Email them to me & I will post them for you.
 
KBob - PS - I think that your suggestion that this may have been a trophy bring back of my great grandpa's makes sense. It really is in exceptional condition bore wise.
 
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