Help in identifying age of Queen knife

[Slamfire]

This is the best reference table which I have access:




I have this plastic yellow handled Queen Steel Stockman, closed it is 4” long. The Blade is etched “Queen Steel #9A”. There are no additional words to the etching.

The tang stamp is different from any tang stamp on this list. The script “Queen” and that style of descender is close to the pre 1960’s knives, but is missing the word “steel”. The 1973 is closest except for the long descender.





Can anyone tell me the date this was made?

 

[ivankerley]

nice

sorry i cant help with that stamp but that handle material might be celluloid as it looks like it pulling away from the bolsters, celluloid is nice but can gas-out and degrade over time, unfortunately when it does that the fumes can rust and pit steel, i have an old yeller handled camillus fishermans luck knife thats doing this and an old dunlap cattleman knife that was my grandads that did it too.
The handle material might help date the knife also as celluloid fell outta favor when companies found dupont delrin (1960's i believe) to be more stable and not bomb grade
Excellent stockman
Regards
gene

 

[Slamfire]

sorry i cant help with that stamp but that handle material might be celluloid as it looks like it pulling away from the bolsters, celluloid is nice but can gas-out and degrade over time, unfortunately when it does that the fumes can rust and pit steel, i have an old yeller handled camillus fishermans luck knife thats doing this and an old dunlap cattleman knife that was my grandads that did it too.
The handle material might help date the knife also as celluloid fell outta favor when companies found dupont delrin (1960's i believe) to be more stable and not bomb grade
Excellent stockman

Thanks for the reply. Was hoping the blade etch might help in identifying the year.

I don't know what celluloid plastic looks like, this is slightly translucent, appears to be sound, but there are gaps from the bolsters, which I chalked up as poor workmanship.

I hope it does not become brittle.

My Dad's WWII K&E slide rule, the plastic ends that held the indicator, that stuff just crumbled. I was able to get a replacement and the source told me that these old plastic ends, some hold up, others just decay. I guess it all depended on what was in the mix the day the plastic was poured.

 

[hso]

Sorry, but the handle material is celluloid and it will continue to worsen. It was just a characteristic of the material.

Keep it away from heat and light and hope for the best.

 

[ivankerley]

ditto what HSO said...

and i'll add that the lighter colors can be especially problematic...
just periodically inspect any you have and if you start to see pitting, rust and the handle gets crumbly, etc. then it would likely be time to think about a rehandle or just let it go. Again sometimes they dont completely gas-out, sometimes it happens and rusts everything in the drawer from the fumes, seen photos of some older bulldog brand knives that was just heart breaking
Celluloid was cool looking but "bomb grade" very unstable and flammable.
http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/celluloid_02.html

Best of luck
Gene

 

[hso]

The nasty rusting problems come from the poor curing of the celluloid before use. Since nitric acid is used in making celluloid it can still have some residual nastiness.

I wonder if the tang stamp isn't an uneven strike and that the tail of the Q didn't take?

 

[ivankerley]

HSO

Not sure but the N in queen looks different also...
Although tang stamps are just one clue in dating and often can be untrustworthy as ive been told by former employee of Camillus Cutlery that the years used for a stamp were far from exact...
Gene

 

[Slamfire]

Read the referenced article about Celluloid.

Oh Crap.......

 

[ivankerley]

Read the referenced article about Celluloid.

Oh Crap.......

yeah dont let it freak you out too bad, not much you can do to prevent it, if it starts to turn on ya you can always rehandle it, i did my grandads dunlap cattleman with simple handtools etc. not that hard to get a functional handle that will last
regards
Gene

 

[Slamfire]

This article has even more information on the chemistry of celluloid, but despite the title, very little on the conservation.

I suspect cool and dry and keep out of sunlight is all I can do.

http://cool.conservation-us.org/jaic/articles/jaic30-02-003.html

 

[ivankerley]

This article has even more information on the chemistry of celluloid, but despite the title, very little on the conservation.

I suspect cool and dry and keep out of sunlight is all I can do.

http://cool.conservation-us.org/jaic/articles/jaic30-02-003.html

yep thats how i store the few that i have
Gene

 

[BCCL]

Over the years, I've learned that Queen employees back in the day, were bad about "lunchbox" knives, made up of available parts and taken home, so it never surprises me to find a Queen without proper tangstamps, odd ones, or even no stamps at all.

 

[ivankerley]

unstamped would likely make a cruddy cutter I believe tangs are stamped pre heat treat though, now i can see a franken knife or two walking out
but Ive never heard that rumour about Queen, i only have one queen and its a 2010 so not exactly the heyday, came sharp contrary to the accepted queen butter knife edge
Gene