Help me understand why I suck with this Glock 22

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push your shooting hand thumb forward (toward the target) when shooting. keep pushing the same with every shot. I think you may be relaxing the grip during the shot string and that relaxation lets the recoil wander to the left. pushing the thumb forward (no side pressure please) keeps tension on the top of your hand and keeps the wrist from breaking back.

also, keep your weight on the balls of your feet. if your weight is back on your heels, your stance will be weak and the gun recoil will push you backward.

luck,

murf
 
Didn’t feel like I did but the paper tells the story. I saw the shot, felt and looked good to me, and got a 7.

I also think I’m seeing the sights differently when carefully lining up equal height equal light, sharp focus back and forth to target to front sight, close one eye if necessary. When I shoot offhand or in matches I shoot mostly target focused (I think).
But I’m obviously jerking the trigger or gripping wrong or anticipating the shot or something offhand.
It’s weird to me that I can shoot the 45s straightish. This G22 is my first full size frame of this type and size. Maybe it just doesn’t agree with me.

I am definitely gripping harder with my strong hand. I noticed that tonight. But it felt like my “standard” grip so I don’t know why this particular pistol would be so difficult for me to hit center with.
 
Tighten your grip. Use 100% with both hands. Lock your pinky fingers on the grip, lock your wrist, drive your thumb forward, and elbow. Either push-pull from the shoulder or press your elbows down, as you prefer, to cause your palms to pinch the gun's grip. Lean forward and put your nose past your toes.

The tighter grip will prevent the gun from wandering in your hand. With the platform solid, now sink more trigger finger into the trigger. It will bring the shots back over to center. Citation: Pat MacNamara (just noticed: See Post #26 of this thread).
Definitely going to try this.
However I’ve seen video evidence from an instructor I trust demonstrate that overgripping a glock will cause POI shift. He shot a tight little group a bit left of center, then fixed his grip and shot a tight little group right on center. Sight picture and trigger press were the same.
I can’t find it now but I bet someone else can
 
I’m obviously jerking the trigger or gripping wrong or anticipating the shot or something offhand.

I am definitely gripping harder with my strong hand. I noticed that tonight. But it felt like my “standard” grip so I don’t know why this particular pistol would be so difficult for me to hit center with.
During point shooting training, when I see POI deviate significantly from POA suspecting shooting hand fingers input on grip, I have them demonstrate the 2 finger point shooting using thumb and 3rd finger. When they realize they were adding input to grip, I have them refocus on neutral push/pull grip and POI returns to POA.

When POI deviates from POA during a 10 shot offhand group, especially towards the end, this could be from muscle fatigue as smaller hand/forearm muscles could be getting tired. Transferring neutral push/pull grip work to larger shoulder/chest/back muscles will reduce muscle fatigue issues in reducing POI deviation from POA.
 
But I’m obviously jerking the trigger or gripping wrong or anticipating the shot or something offhand.
It’s weird to me that I can shoot the 45s straightish. This G22 is my first full size frame of this type and size. Maybe it just doesn’t agree with me.

Maybe it has to do with the size of the grip on the gun. Have you considered taking the tape off the G22 and adding a backstrap? They do make a difference.

Or you could get a grip sleeve to thicken it up a bit.
 
I have L/XL sized hands but prefer smaller grips. The G21/41 frame is uncomfortably large even without any backstraps. I don’t want to add girth to an already blocky and large G22 frame.

if it’s going to take lots of mods or hours of work for me to shoot this particular pistol well I feel like I’ll just keep it for range guests to try and I’ll shoot the pistols I shoot well.

I am glad to know the pistol itself is capable of shooting where it’s pointed... if the shooter isn’t screwing it up
 
"Definitely going to try this.
However I’ve seen video evidence from an instructor I trust demonstrate that overgripping a glock will cause POI shift. He shot a tight little group a bit left of center, then fixed his grip and shot a tight little group right on center. Sight picture and trigger press were the same.
I can’t find it now but I bet someone else can"

It won't so long as it's even between the hands.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtbs7wd5C-URhwiK2-y0Qn1ZED9qL9Ifj
 
Possibly. However 100% with my right hand is significantly more than 100% with my left. I assume you mean “as tight as possible while maintaining even pressure and not shaking or paralyzing the trigger finger”
 
Forgot my G22 but tried a couple offhand with G23C which prints a little lower but otherwise has shown similarish groups for me.

First group is with my usual grip

0FCFA38E-77FF-4993-B07C-388E48CA2877.jpeg
 
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Next is with 100% grip to the point I had to take a break and let my hands rest after about 6 shots, plus finger inserted and pressing trigger with middle section of finger. Looks a little better to me but of course this is just one group

80D68C13-1A1C-4B16-8E24-89D1DFC50BC9.jpeg
 
Next is with 100% grip to the point I had to take a break and let my hands rest after about 6 shots, plus finger inserted and pressing trigger with middle section of finger. Looks a little better to me but of course this is just one group

View attachment 884726
Looks a little better but having to have a death grip to the point of getting tired six shots in isn't a solution in my view. Been reading through replies as actually looking for ideas and advice to better myself also.

I dunno 1K you shoot other guns excellent including other Glocks, guess just keep trying or chalk it off as not being your most friendly gun to shoot.
 
Next is with 100% grip to the point I had to take a break and let my hands rest after about 6 shots
but having to have a death grip to the point of getting tired six shots in isn't a solution in my view.
Wow. Death grip ... :eek:

Death grip? No. Since Glock trigger requires you to overcome spring tension the entire time, trying to hold the pistol steady with a death grip will overtax your forearm muscles and you will experience muscle fatigue, fast, which will only aggravate the dynamic movement of front sight until the striker is released.

Try this for me instead - Fast trigger pull/press.

Make a "comfortable" (not a death grip) neutral push/pull yet firm grip on pistol with grip work force transferred to the shoulders/chest/back (And key is full transfer of work to larger muscles) and using third finger with index finger along the frame, quickly press the trigger to hear the "click".

I bet you, the front sight was more steady if not absolutely steady compared to "death grip" trigger pull with index finger.

And since the grip work is being done by larger muscles, you can keep repeating trigger press without moving the front sight. Try a few more times while quickly pressing the trigger with your third finger. The front sight should be steady.

Now, do the same (quick trigger press) using the index finger.

Was the front sight more steady?
 
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< Exchanging PMs with OP >

"And if the front sight was steady, dry fire several more times using the third finger.

Trigger pull/press should not be a slow torture. It should be a quick execution of 'click'.

If you see any movement or wobble, make sure full transfer of grip work is done to the shoulders of shooting arm using the chest muscle and pull back a bit more with support hand hook/arm using back muscles.

Practice until the quick trigger pull/press results in 'click' and no movement of the front sight.

Then do the same thing using the index finger. Remember, full transfer of grip work to larger muscles and fast 'click'"

< More PM sent ... I wish I was right in front of OP to demonstrate the difference >
 
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The key is seeing the difference between slow trigger pull/press that "wobbles/moves" the front sight and faster trigger pull/press that holds the front sight steady.

As Brian Zins verified in this thread, trigger pull is dynamic until the striker is released - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trigger-control.834737/page-2#post-11245640

" firing pin/striker release is not an "instantaneous" event rather a sequence of events that require increasing amount of force to undo several intentional safeguards and mechanical action of metal-to-metal contact surfaces overcoming friction/tension applied by springs and leverage."
Using a neutral push/pull grip and transferring the grip work to larger muscles allows the pistol to remain more steady while the trigger finger actuates the trigger.

If the front sight continues to wobble/move, push a bit more with shooting arm at the "V" palm of hand and pull back a bit more with support hand's hooked fingers transferring the force to the shoulders.

Once you can hold the pistol steady and able to do a quick "click" without moving the front sight, holes (POI) won't deviate as much from POA.

And why use 3rd finger as trigger finger?

I found when people are moving the front sight with index finger, having them use 3rd finger moves the front sight less. (I think 3rd finger provides more flat placement of finger on trigger than index finger). And once they can "click" the trigger without moving the front sight, I have them practice with index finger.
 
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< More PMs >

Here's step by step:
  1. Grip your pistol with shooting hand and extend out with "V" of palm high on back strap/beaver tail (partial or full extension)
  2. Form a "hook" with support hand and pull back squeezing shooting hand fingers while resisting movement with shooting hand/arm - Try to make full contact of support hand palm with pistol grip (This is Not Weaver or Isosceles as you can bend your elbows or do full extension)
  3. Increase push/pull until pistol can be held steady with work transferred to shoulders using chest/back muscles
  4. While watching the front sight, quickly press trigger until you hear "click" (Try 3rd finger if index finger moves front sight)
  5. If you push the front sight down, you are pressing too fast. Slow down a bit until front sight is steady with "click"
NOTE: On step #2, I noticed my support arm elbow torques down and "locks" to form a neutral push/pull grip, an isometric grip.

At 1:55 minute of video, push/pull demonstrated

 
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< More PMs >

Just covering all bases ...

Diagnosing Accuracy Problems - Handgun 101 with Top Shot Chris Cheng



"What makes me shoot to the left? ... If you shoot to the left, this video is for you."

 
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OK, looks like OP is making progress (Hopefully we will have a better range report) and I want to share this with the rest of THR for others who may be having the same issue.

When I transitioned shooting USPSA from 1911 with 2.5 lb trigger job to Glock 17/22 with factory 4.5 lb trigger, I went from a clean trigger break to a pre-set DAO trigger that was vague with a lot of take up. The slower I pulled the Glock trigger, sometimes more the front sight wobbled towards the end of the trigger pull as I needed to overcome various spring tension/internal safeties with the trigger bar. I think what the OP is doing is trying to compensate for this with brute force but causing input to trigger/grip and moving the POI away from POA.

That's why I had OP do a quick trigger pull, so the slow counter/compensating muscle/finger movements would be eliminated/reduced with a cleaner "click" that did not move the front sight. And since for many, using the index finger will place the finger tip at an angle, I had the OP use the 3rd finger which places the finger more flat on the trigger.

And once you are able to produce consistently quick trigger pull with "click", hopefully you will produce less POI deviation from POA. And for faster follow up shots/double taps, you can eliminate a lot of take up by returning the trigger just enough to reset the trigger.


At 2:15 minute of video, Rob Leatham discusses trigger manipulation and says, "Hold the gun as tight as you can, pull the trigger as fast as you can WITHOUT moving the gun from that alignment."

"Point the gun at the target ... and pull the trigger without moving the gun out of alignment and rest of it don't matter." ... And explains how ... "I release the trigger [to reset] as part of the shot"

 
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View attachment 883866

10 yards offhand. Rounds hitting everywhere. Is it my eyes on the Ameriglo Pro I dot sights? Is it my trigger control? Is it my reloads?

I’m seriously baffled. I was shooting at a 12” plate at 18 yards, good sight alignment, nice slow smooth trigger press, and missing. “REALLY?!?” I said out loud.

something’s amiss.

here’s the G22 10 shots at 10 yards. RMR 155 RNFP over 5.6 W231. Should I try longer OAL? Should I just give up on Glocks?

these are at 1.125” IIRC.

Any chance you could try a G17 or another G22? Factory ammo would be good and it would at least eliminate the software interface with a Glock as an issue.

PS Not to add insult to injury but unless that is a 3 holer in the 8 Ring I would be really concerned about what happened to #10.
 
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