HELP? Reloading 45 acp.

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Gonzofam

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I just finnished reloading 223. Thought I understood everything. Here is where I am minus the hair pulling. 3 die carbide rcbs set. I have tried with 2 unprimed shell an am crushing the bullet at the top. What the hell? Do i need to flair deeper? Do I not need to crimp and move the seating die way off only to push the bullet to correct depth? Plus, PLUS ! I did a search for Reloading 45 acp. Clicked on a video, got stuck, then tried to use adobe to open, clicked back to the video page and it was a porn vid and got a virus! I am :fire: and feel like :banghead: cause of the reloading questions I have.

Tumbled
Deprimed
measured and all are just under max case length
reprimed
set the next die to flair just enough to get bullet in.( should I go deeper?)
put in the seating diejust to the shell holder and then backed off a full turn.
The shell still feels really tight as it goes in the die. Do I need to adjust the die higher? The bullet wont go deeper and when I thought It was seating deeper, it was pushing the hollo point into itself crushing the bullet at the top.

Help please? any pointers hints.
 
Sounds like the seating die is set too deep. Back it out, then run some empty case thru it and check the crimp. When you get enough crimp to suit you lock the die down. Then turn the seater plug all the way up. Put a loaded round similar to the bullet style you are using in press and run it up in the seater die. Then screw the plug down until it touchs the bullet. That will get you pretty close to the OAL you are looking for.
 
Interesting. Sorry to hear of your issues.

• For plated and jacketed a bell of up to .010" might be needed. For lead bullets you might need slightly more. You never want to see any lead shavings laying on the shell holder or up inside the seating die.

• Inside the seating die, you are seating and crimping at the same time. Seating is set by the inside "stem", and crimping is done by the die "body". Make a practice round using only a bullet and sized case. Adjust the die body progressively downward until you achieve a crimp diameter (at the case mouth) right at .470" and lock the body at that position. Then on a second test round you can adjust the OAL by moving the seating stem.

When you get those 3 things adjusted, most of your issues should disappear.
 
I am reloading 185 gr Nosler HP . And maybe I am at fault for listening to to someone around here where I live. They said no real crimp is needed since the bullets hold tight when seated. Because of this you dont need to trim to all the same length like for a rifle.
 
I'm trying to follow what is happening...

When you list "Deprimed" as a step, that was using the resizing die, right? So the case is now resized and deprimed at this point.

About all I can suggest just repeats the advice already provided by rfwobbly. The combination seater/crimp die has to be adjusted correctly or you will be trying to seat the bullet after a roll crimp has been made. And for .45ACP, you only want to crimp far enough to remove the "bell" you made with the expander die. This is usually referred to as a taper crimp, even if it wasn't made with a taper crimp die.

The advice you got doesn't sound wrong, as .45ACP usually has enough crimp applied to just remove the bell that was created by the expander die. The end result is a straight case that looks similar to one that hasn't been "belled". Case tension should be enough to hold the bullet and prevent setback, unless you are dealing with work-hardened, thin cases and lead bullets.

The roll crimp is usually necessary for heavy-recoiling revolver cartridges, like the .44 Remington Magnum, both to prevent bullet pull due to recoil and to help ensure proper ignition of the powders that are typically used.

I believe you're having problems because the adjustments for the seater/crimp die are critical if you are trying to seat and crimp in the same step.

One suggestion might be to back out the die body in the press until it doesn't touch the case at all (typically by putting a case in the ram, fully up, and screwing the die into the press until it touches the case, then back it up 1 turn.) Then adjust the seater stem until you get the desired seating depth. After you've seated all the bullets in your "run", proceed with crimping.

Next, back the seater stem up a couple of turns so it can't hit the bullet as you lower the die. Loosen the lock ring and then slowly screw the die into the press and try crimping a case w/ bullet. Inspect carefully. When you get the "bell" removed and no additional rolling of the edge, stop. Tighten the lock ring and then crimp all the rest of the cartridges.

If you now adjust the seating stem until it touches a bullet previously seated, without disturbing the die position in the press, you should have the die set up for seating and crimping in the same step. If may not be perfect, but it should be close.

(I've never seen instructions that say to adjust a seating die to touch the shell holder and then back off a full turn. I'm not saying these are wrong, but the above method is probably easier.)

Good luck.
 
I think I might have it. The ununiformity in the brass length is causing the problem. And possibly the fact the shell was not resized because that is not in step one with this die set. The fl belling and resizing die post needed to go further in tho the shell. Then the bullet went in easier. Setting the bullet depth and not crimping is what seems to work also. I might be able to do this step, both at the same time if the shells were over all same length. I still need to make small adjustments in crimping. Does this sound right because of the 3 die carbide 45 acp RCBS set puts out? The shells need to be the same length? I need lots more shells then if so...
 
Reloading the .45 ACP

For me I have had the best performance with only using the seating die to seat and not crimp. Since the .45acp bullet has no cannelure I just load to the O.A.L. I want and use a Taper Crimp. You could buy a dedicated taper crimp die for .45ACP (http://www.midwayusa.com)
 
A couple things I'll try to describe that could help.

Belling or flaring the case is done by the expander plug that expands the case to accept the bullet after it is sized, this expander gives you the correct ID to accept the bullet and hold it with the correct tension. You need to make sure you are actually expanding and flaring and not just touching the case with the tip of the expanding part of the tool. Below is a picture of the expander and flaring stem and what portions do what part. It happens to be for a .38 spl die set that deprimes at the expanding die but the design is similar for the .45 acp.

38expander.jpg


The second issue is adjusting the seating and crimp die properly. Set in to far and it will crush the case. The seating and crimp die needs to be adjusted using either a loaded or factory round you want to match OAL with or an empty case with a little more adjustment to get the seating depth that you want. I'll try to describe the procedure using a loaded round and you can figure out how to do it with an empty case easily. Adjusting the seating/crimp die is slightly more involved than simply screwing it in to the shell holder and backing it off a turn.

1. Remove the seating die, unlock the seating stem and back it out so that it will not touch the bullet.
2. Put a loaded round in the shell holder and run it to the top and hold it there.
3. Screw in the seating die until the crimp shoulder touches the case mouth.
4. Lower the ram and turn your seating die in a 1/2 turn and lock it in place. This should provide a moderate crimp when a bullet is seated.
5. Raise the ram with the loaded shell back into the die, it may crimp the round a bit. While holding the ram up screw in the seating stem until it contacts the bullet, then lock it in place. This should give you an OAL that's very close to the round you are using.

The previous 5 steps will normally set the die to a working position. Make slight adjustments to the crimp by screwing the die in more or less and adjust the OAL by small turns of the seating stem, all doen by a try, test and measure method with the next round you load. You can pretty much set the calipers aside. Remove the barrel from you pistol to use as a case gauge, drop in a factory round and then your hand load. When the hand load falls in, drops out and sits at the same depth as the factory round you know it should work at the range. Adjustments to the OAL is sometimes required so the bullet doesn't engage the rifling prematurely and the round chambers properly.
 
The shells need to be the same length?
Click to expand...
In 45acp the length is not that important. Just set the bell/expander so it opens the shortest case enough. The taper crimp is very forgiving with different case lengths. Crimp enough so the loaded rounds will drop into the chamber freely.
 
Hey thanks for the help guys. So this 3 die set I have is not the same as the 2 die set. The first sizes the shell in and deprimes. The second is not just a belling, it is resizing the shell out and the further in you go in the casing is when you hit the belling part? I think that was also part of the prob not going deep enough. Still making dummies, I set the fl die (belling) to go halfway down and not just touch the lip and it seems to accept bullets better. Than ,if I adj the crimp die with the bullet seating rod out, it wont over crimp if I go 1/16 to and 1/8 down the shoulder to crimp? I need to just hit it a little? I think a little bump of the crimp would make me feel better with a few in a clip knowing the bullet wont just slip forward or back. If this is right then maybe I fee like I can throw some charges and make a real one. So charge wise, w231 is what I have and will start midway up the minimum to maximum charge, and move up .3 grains per five rounds till I find what works and cycles through the gun. Three different reloading books. Three different max amounts. This also is ad-ji-ta-ting.
 
RCBS Dies 45acp

The first sizes the shell in and deprimes.
Click to expand...
Yes, no belling.
The second is not just a belling, it is resizing the shell out and the further in you go in the casing is when you hit the belling part?
Click to expand...
Yes, it expands the case from the inside out. The deeper it goes, the more bell is placed on the case mouth.
Bullet Seating Adjustment

The trick is to set the bullet seating depth first, then the crimp. This is done as follows; With an empty, sized case in the shell holder, hold the ram at the top of its stroke. Turn the bullet seating die body down over the case until you feel it come to a stop. This will be when the case mouth contacts the crimp shoulder inside the die. Mark this position by turning the lock ring down against the turret or press frame. Now adjust your bullet seating depth. Once you have the bullet seated to the desired depth, back the bullet seater adjuster out about 1 turn. Now turn the bullet seating die body in to apply the desired crimp. Once this is established, hold the ram at the top of its stroke and spin the bullet seater adjuster down until it stops.

It is a good idea to carry this out with an empty case, so that after you have seated the bullet, you have a perfectly safe "dummy" cartridge (or gauge) to repetitively set seating depth and crimp on future occasions.

Once you have this "dummy" gauge, all you have to do is place it in the shell holder, raise the ram to the top of its stroke, turn the bullet seating body down until it stops, and then turn the bullet seating depth adjuster in until it stops. Since the crimp and the seating depth were already set, the die will return to very close to the same settings.
Click to expand...
 
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Alright I have 20. All are the same specs as speer hollow points I had. I used the book that came with rcbs reloader. All fell in the barrel purfecto. One of these will have to work.
W231 powder
6.6
6.8
7.0
7.2
All weighed individually cause I was told the powder charger is not the most accurate charge to charge. I am ok with the little extra time.
All COAL 1.200
 
Alright I have 20. All are the same specs as speer hollow points I had. I used the book that came with rcbs reloader. All fell in the barrel purfecto. One of these will have to work.
W231 powder
6.6
6.8
7.0
7.2
All weighed individually cause I was told the powder charger is not the most accurate charge to charge. I am ok with the little extra time.
All COAL 1.200
Click to expand...

I'm only a beginner too - but...

Did you read the part in the book about not HAVING to use maximum loads or see the recipe itself gives both minimum AND maximum amounts?

There is a LOT more info that book that came with your RCBS book than the "recipes"

Which RCBS reload (or kit) did you buy?
Were your RCBS .45 carbide dyes new in the box?

From what I've read here - be safe, have fun and good luck!

:uhoh:
 
O.K. For the 45 ACP you do need to crimp. You just need to use a taper crimp die which basically removes the bell and puts a little additional pressure on the bullet. You can taper crimp too much. The way to tell if you have it right is to seat one bullet...die backed out enough so no crimping pressure is felt, then go to the taper crimp die and start running the case/bullet in until you feel it get a little resistance. Crimp to a diameter of, I believe, .472. The test for correct crimp is that you can push the bullet end against a bathroom scale and get around 30-35 pounds without the bullet moving into the case.

Too much and you'll "size" the bullet down and it will telescope (learned this the hard way with some .4515 jacketed stuff years ago..ruined a whole box). Too little and they might not chamber, or worse yet, might telescope.

If loading for a 45 ACP revolver, disregard the above and roll crimp if you want to....if you are using moon clips. If headspacing on the case mouth, do the above.

My process is: Size and decap. Expand and prime. Charge. Seat. Taper Crimp. Shoot, enjoy.
 
I don't like using the term "crimp" when talking to a new reloader about reloading semi-auto ammo. Using a taper crimp die, not to crimp, but to remove any flare (or belling) from the case mouth is all that's needed. No crimp is applied, just straightening the mouth. If you can see a crimp or taper, it's too much. Neck tension should be sufficient to hold bullets in place, no crimp needed...

jes MHO from reloading for my 1911 and P90 for a couple years.
 
I would double check the load data on this for sure
Click to expand...

Aye - ya think he'll come back from the range and change his handle/nick here to "Lefty" or "Stubbie" ???

I didn't see ANY of those loads (or anything NEAR that much powder) in the books I have - including the Speer manual he quoted.

I could be wrong - heck, won't be the first time.... heck, won't even be the first time TODAY, lol.

:p
 
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