Help ! Winchester 1886 Prototype ?

[RocknRoll]

I have an 1886 Winchester prototype in 45-70. Got it from 3rd owner. It was in a museum that closed, then a Mexican ranch, then to a collector, then to me. He knew the history and wrote it all out for me. It has a few oddities unusual to a production 86 rifle but I just assumed that was because it's a prototype. Problem is I can't figure a way to actually authenticate this as what it is. No normal serial numbers. Any advice ? Thanx in advance for any help.

 

[Chevelle SS]

Probably try to contact the Cody Firearms Museum, they probably could point you in the right direction or give you information on it.

 

[RocknRoll]

I'm looking for anyone who might know how the whole prototype procedure worked back then, any info I can get that may help me on this rifle.
Yhanx again !

 

[Jessesky]

Cody firearms is very helpful. I have an 1886 that has a 20” barrel. I wanted to get some insight to it’s history and they were very informative.

Pics btw?!?!

 

[StrawHat]

From what I remember in an old article about John Browning. I believe Browning would come up with an idea and describe it to his brother Matthew. Matthew was a better machinist and could interpret what JMB spoke into metal. This model would be sold to Winchester and given to someone in the Winchester machine shop to modify for ease of production.

Kevin

 

[eastbank]

the lower tang may have been replaced, you could buy tangs from Winchester that had no numbers on them. pictures please.

 

[Jim Watson]

Gun companies had "toolrooms" where prototype and developmental models could be made one or a few at a time.
I can't imagine Mr Browning not bringing in an inventors model. One gun company employee said "I like Mr Browning, he talks in inches, not thousandths."

 

[RocknRoll]

It's buried deep in a safe. I'll try to get some pics up in a few days. The normal place for a serial number is blank. It has a letter and 3 numbers STAMPED in another place. The previous owner told me that his friend at Winchester told him before he died that the letter was for a particular department. It has a carbine length barrel with no crown which Made me suspicious at first that this was just a cut down fake. But I had it examined at Antique and Modern Firearms in Lexington Ky. (a reputable antique gun biz for about 30 years) Under a microscope kind of exam and they stated that they believe the front sight is from the factory as it is now and has not been moved. As well they could see no evidence that the original serial number had been removed. As well the previous owner seemed a sincere person. So I think I'm a believer now. I'll get some pics up pretty soon. Thanx.

 

[stringnut]

Without actual written ,and authenticated, provenance it is just an interesting piece to speculate about. It may be just as you were told. There may be other explanations. Could be a parts gun that some one at the factory put together. May not have been an actual prototype. Could have been a pre production test gun. You have to run a few through the process to make sure all the bugs are worked out. Things like this are very hard to verify. If indeed made before production it is on the far side of 130 years ago! With enough effort you may be able to find significant information. However, be ready for disappointment, there may not be much out there.

Cody museum is a fantastic source and well worth the effort.

 

[Slamfire]

I have an 1886 Winchester prototype in 45-70. Got it from 3rd owner. It was in a museum that closed, then a Mexican ranch, then to a collector, then to me. He knew the history and wrote it all out for me. It has a few oddities unusual to a production 86 rifle but I just assumed that was because it's a prototype. Problem is I can't figure a way to actually authenticate this as what it is. No normal serial numbers. Any advice ? Thanx in advance for any help.

I have a book about Winchester and the company made a number of lever action prototypes of many models that today are only seen in pictures or in drawings. Without pictures I have no idea what markings are on your rifle, so I have no idea if your rifle was made by Winchester, or was made by someone else. But Winchester was not the only company making lever actions, and then there were skilled individuals who made complete weapons.

You would have to start by reading all the references you can. Winchester is basically a brand name now so unless they have records they won't be much help.