Help with my Snubbie

[Mediocrity]

So I have a S&W M&P360. I have shot about 150 rounds through it. It seems to be shooting to the left. I have done lots of Dry practice with my trigger and I can run the trigger consistently with very little movement in the Front sight. When I go to the range, if I hold about 5 inches to the right i hit pretty center.

In the picture you can see two groups that I have outlined. The group in the high center of the target was fired single action aiming for the small box that is indicated by the X there is one flyer (oops). The Group further to the left was fired in Double Action aiming directly at the center of the target.

My questions are:

1. can ammo Make a difference?

2. can the front sight be adjusted or do I "Have what I have".

I am not afraid to believe that I am the Problem. It is very likely that I am the Problem, but as mentioned, I have done lots of Dry practice with this gun to try to correct this problem but it doesn't seem to be going away.

what are your thoughts?

 

[denfoote]

What ammo are you using???
Fixed sights are usually regulated to a specific bullet weight.
This being a .38 spl, my guess is that weight is 158gr.
Get some and try again.

You may still be flinching the trigger.
Do this.
Put a quarter on the top strap.
Dry fire the weapon.
Repeat until the quarter does not fall off.

 

[earlthegoat2]

This is a 357 mag chambered snub.

Therefore the load it is regulated to will be a 357 mag round.

THis does not mean a 38 round of some kind will not still hit point of aim. Try a few different kinds of ammo. I know 357s are brutal but that is what the gun is made for.

If there is not dicernable difference it may have to go back to Smith. S&W has good service and you can ship the gun w/o using an FFL on their dime and they will send it right back to you.

What range are you shooting from?

 

[jfh]

I, too, have one of these j-frames; mine is 38-Special version, but with the same tritium small-dot sight. It's probably been set up for use with 158-gr. bullets, as noted above. You are smart to consider the effect of the factors--notably, the shooter's hand conditioning and general shooting techniques--on the POA-POI issue.

My question is, why are you applying marksmanship standards and techniques to shooting with this kind of firearm? This is a 2" barreled revolver, basically designed for close-up-and-personal self defense. Because of these parameters, under what circumstances do you think you will be able to use aimed fire--much less aimed single-action fire? Add to that the conventional-wisdom of 'claiming self-defense beyond perhaps ten yards is folly'--and there is some question about your queries--IMO.

There is a drill you can use with whatever ammo you like that helps build the skills for using this gun effectively--the old fuff 'quad five' drill. Basically, that is

Five shots,

Five yards,

Five-inch group,

Five seconds or less.​

You can use it with a blank piece of typing paper--indeed, it is best to use it that way. Use the (educational-psychology) technique of "successive approximations" to reach that goal. Simply start by trying to get all shots on the paper in five seconds--but then worry about only one of the parameters at a time. For example, work on getting all shots into a five-inch group on that blank piece of paper. Slow down until you have them in a five-inch group, or speed up until your group is larger than five seconds--and so on.

Other than helping you resolve any intrinsic POA-POI issues--this kind of drill and kind of skill-set thinking is probably of more benefit that the marksmanship set of skills.

IMO, of course.

Jim H.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Though I tend to agree with jfh above, my older Model 60 snub 38 special chambering will put rounds point of aim at 25 yds with one specific load. Maybe I am just used to it. I have shot it quite a bit over the years.

Guns not being regulated for POA/POI are not uncommon these days. I figure you should just do what makes you most comfortable.

 

[David E]

Do the "Ball and Dummy" drill.

Take some fired cases, put 2-3 in the gun. Load the other chambers with live ammo.

Close eyes, spin cylinder and gently close it. Open eyes.

Try to obtain your best hits. If the hammer falls on an empty chamber and you jerked the gun, it'll be painfully obvious. If this happens, you have your answer.

 

[Mediocrity]

jfh,

the only reason that I fired in Single Action was to see if it was still shooting left even with the Nice short Crisp Trigger pull, and it was. I do not ever intend to use "aimed Single Action Fire". I am simply trying to get to the bottom of why I am shooting to the left.

"up Close" in my estimation is 7 yards and closer. I like to do some practice at 7 yards and closer with my small guns. the purpose to use marksmanship is that if I aim "High Center Mass" and it pulls 5 inches left then it could turn into a peripheral hit that doesn't have as much ability to stop a fight.

I can accomplish your "Old fuff Quad Five" drill without a problem, it's just that my 5" group will be about 5 inches left of where I wanted it.

Denfoote - I am going to try your Quarter Drill and see how I come out.

I appreciate all of the advice. I will try some Different types of ammo and will keep trying to smooth out my trigger pull.

Thanks Guys.

 

[joneb]

Here's another thought, how does the gun/grips fit your hand ? If you keep your eyes focused on a target and then point the gun at the target do the sights line up ? or is the gun aiming high and left ? With a short barrel a little bit makes a big difference.

 

[jfh]

mediocrity: I will stay off my soapbox, then--and, yes, ammo can make a difference.

Jim H.

 

[oldbear]

Mediocrity

If I remember correctly most 38 special revolvers are sighted in for 158Gr. Projectiles, if you are using a lighter weight projectile that may be part of the cause. It may also be the brand of ammo; some guns shoot better with one brand of ammo vs. another, so try several different brands of ammo. If you keep getting the same results, your groups are tight especially for a 2” defense revolver, try a little Kentucky windage (Sp?)

 

[jensb]

Get someone else to shoot your gun,then you may see if its you or the gun.

 

[NMGonzo]

~this

 

[oldfool]

suspect #1 - grips, try some others
suspect #2 - grips, try some others
suspect #3 - the snap cap drill suggested above, one random snap cap, the rest live rounds works for me

alternate suggestion - get a barrel insert pulse laser triggered by hammer hitting snap caps, practice with that a bit

ran my just for fun 22mag pistola this weekend, 100 rounds
only do that maybe once a year
gun is good, hi/lo spread good within 1 1/2" of aim center at 10 yards w/avg shot density on center, but guaranteed average shot density will string to 4 or 5 inches left.... skinny grips = me, not the gun

 

[content]

Hello friends and neighbors // Post # 11 said it already,,, although I made sure to ask someone I knew was proficent with the firearm in question.

I tend to shoot a bit left too and all my firearms with adjustable sights are set up to correct this. I only remember when I'm shooting something with fixed sights.

Might be the shape of my head/hand or any number of things. Do you shoot left with any other handguns?