Help with Pedersoli Carleton Underhammer Sear Spring Reassembly

[Iota Unum]

Disassembled Carleton Underhammer. As is common with springs, the sear spring jumped out of position as I unscrewed the plate holding the action. I am having difficulty figuring out exactly what that spins hooks to and how. You Tube is helpful for most firearms, but this is an uncommon handgun. Can anyone out there send me a picture of what right looks like? Extremely simple action, just can' figure out the damn spring. Thanks.

 

[arcticap]

Perhaps this exploded view helps to provide the proper orientation of the spring. --->>> https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/uploads/prodotti/S357.pdf

It's from the Pedersoli product page:--->>> https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sc...-underhammer-carleton-underhammer-target.html

 

[Iota Unum]

Thanks. I have that view, it gives the orientation of the spring but does not show exactly where or how it connect the the sear and trigger.

 

[daboyleroy]

Ojh
maybe able to help
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/underhammer.820424/

 

[daboyleroy]

??reset the trigger since the trigger guard is the hammer spring
????

 

[arcticap]

Thanks. I have that view, it gives the orientation of the spring but does not show exactly where or how it connect the the sear and trigger.

ojh cannot be contacted, I tried.
He visited recently but the only way to contact him is to post in one his recent threads or reply to one of his posts and see if he notices a plea for help to visit this thread.

There may need to be some trial & error putting it back together and hooking up the main spring to provide some tension.
Since it's the sear spring, I would guess that it attaches to the sear, perhaps the post [trigger pin] on the sear?
One part of the sear spring is probably anchored with a point of it pressing against something such as the upper inside or side of the receiver maybe?
There is a small bit of black on the tip of the spring. Will that rest against the top or side of the receiver?
Where else can it reach? The trigger?
You need to see which position that the spring can be oriented to where it will be anchored, a place to give the spring some tension to act like a spring and provide some spring action.
But it may not actually provide spring action until the cover is put back together and the mainspring is hooked back up.
Try to think how it could have popped off when the mainspring and cover plate was released.
In an underhammer rifle, the coil sear spring rests against the top inside of the receiver I think, and the loop fits around a post.

I have no idea where your sear spring goes, but trial & error is your main option at this point.

Dixie Gun Works sells the Carleton pistol and they should have a service tech. to speak with.
Perhaps he can describe the assembly process to you on the phone or in an email.

Other than that, I can only suggest to Google search for posts made by people who own the Carleton, and then register with the site and try to contact them for help
through personal messages and see if they reply.

Additional info about the Carleton:--->>> https://mp510sd.weebly.com/uploads/4/4/9/2/4492446/the_pedersoli_carleton.pdf

daboyleroy, I originally posted the PDF on the Weebly site after it was sent to me by a Carleton owner/seller.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I suspect that the spring slips over the pivot pin. The flat leg of the spring bears against the top of that housing unit and the bottom leg presses against the top of the trigger to give it pressure to return to its position of rest.

 

[Iota Unum]

Thank to all who replied to my post. I finally decided to go to the Pedersoli website and filled out an email contact. Many companies seem to not bother to reply, but Pedersoli responded in 24 hours with written instruction (in English) and an offer to send me a video if required. I was able to reassemble. EXTREMELY simple action in this underhammer. Pedersoli was great. The sear spring actually never touches the sear. Is is anchored by one of the frame screws and pushes against the trigger.

 

[arcticap]

That's great news.
Now that you have the instructions, can you please post a copy of them here in case others need them?

 

[daboyleroy]

Thank to all who replied to my post. I finally decided to go to the Pedersoli website and filled out an email contact. Many companies seem to not bother to reply, but Pedersoli responded in 24 hours with written instruction (in English) and an offer to send me a video if required. I was able to reassemble. EXTREMELY simple action in this underhammer. Pedersoli was great. The sear spring actually never touches the sear. Is is anchored by one of the frame screws and pushes against the trigger.

GREAT

Way to go Pedersoli, especially since they are NOT local.

 

[arcticap]

Iota Unum was thoughtful enough to provide me with the Carleton Assembly - Disassembly Instructions which I will post here for future reference.

Pedersoli Carleton underhammer pistol disassembling - assembling instructions.

Thank you very much!
The thumbnail is a word document download.

 

[Chris Burkhardt]

Thanks for this thread. I had the same issue today after a deep disassembly and cleaning. My trigger feels better than ever. I was also having a problem with setting the sights at 25 yards. Turns out I had to open the inletting around the rear sight spring a little. Looking forward to shooting my Carleton more.

Anyone have any tips on cleaning between shots?

Thanks everyone.

 

[arcticap]

It might take some trial and error to learn if your ignition system has any quirks that require a special swabbing method or not.
And also the type of powder that you intend to use.
Hoppe's Number 9 Black Powder Gun Bore Cleaner and Patch Lube is generally well regarded and not very expensive.
It shouldn't interfere with ignition and there's many user reviews. --->>> https://www.amazon.com/Hoppes-Powder-Cleaner-Lubricant-Bottle/dp/B000PW20XS

 

[Chris Burkhardt]

Thanks, I’ll check it out. I’m currently using prelubricated Wonderlube patches. So far I’m trying Old Ellsworth 3F at 1cc grains with 1cc of corn meal over top. At home I use a cleaning tube and pump soapy water through it. After it’s dried I’m using Butch’s Bore Cleaner. I’m getting nice clean patches after.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

OK, time for me to add some data here to help those who may encounter this same challenge in the future... Putting the Carleton back together is a real challenge because you can't see what it looked like before you took it apart!

Here's why... That little rascal of a sear spring is held in place by the long screw which holds the right side cover on the pistol's frame. As soon as you remove the screw to get at the innards, you've removed the pivot point for the spring. It goes "sproing!" before you can even see where it should fit. Frustrating indeed.

In truth, the instruction sheet provided in the downloadable link above (thanks, Articap) is really short on useful information about where that spring should go and how it should be oriented. Let me see if I can bridge that information gap here.

Firstly, start with the pistol lying on its left side, muzzle pointing to the right. Assume you're like everybody else and have removed the right side frame cover and the sear spring has gone wild. Here's how I would advise proceeding.
1) remove the mainspring 6, it's retaining block 7 and retaining screw 25
2) remove the trigger pivot pin 16 - this allows the trigger to move freely within the frame recess
3) thread a screw (sorry, don't have the size - it's metric and you can find it at your local specialty fastener store) into the upper aft hole in the frame - this is the hole previously vacated by the long screw 20. Thread this screw in from the LEFT side of the frame. Thread it in so it barely protrudes into the frame cavity - not more than a thread or two
4) position the sear spring 5 so its long, hooked arm is resting against the left inside surface of the frame cavity, pointing downward and forward... This should result in the short arm of the spring pointing upward where it will nestle into radiused recess at the rear of the frame
5)wind in the positioning screw threaded into the left side of the receiver - it should run through the center hole formed in the sear spring - if it doesn't position the sear spring so its center hole is over the positioning screw, then wind the positioning screw all the way in until it contacts the right side of the frame. The sear spring is now locked into place and won't fall out.
6) push the trigger upwards and to the rear - this is intended to move the top tang of the trigger out of the way of the sear spring
7) using a tool (slot screwdriver or a dental pick) to move the long arm of the sear spring forward - you're now winding it up, tensioning it. Continue until the bent hook of the sear spring is located ahead of the top tang of the trigger.
8) reposition the trigger such that its retaining pin can be inserted... insert the pin to hold the trigger in place.

At this point the sear spring is properly positioned and the rest of the lock mechanism can be put back in place. This part of the assembly process is obvious enough that I won't describe it here.
Now it's time to put the right side cover on the frame. This is where it gets a little tricky. Position the cover so it picks up the sear pivot pin and trigger pivot pin. Insert the two short cover screws and tighten into position.

This is where things become fun. Insert the long screw into the top aft screw hole and start threading it into place - it will bottom out against the temporary sear spring retaining screw installed earlier and threaded into the left side of the frame. The game here is to back out the temporary screw by a turn, then tighten the cover screw from the opposite side. In this manner the cover screw will eventually be threaded fully into place while the sear spring is fully retained. Eventually the temporary sear retaining screw will be removed from the frame while the cover screw bottoms out in place.

I've attached here a couple of photos, the first showing the proper orientation of the sear spring and other components in place. The second photo shows the method of using a temporary screw to hold the sear spring in place while affixing the cover to the right side of the frame.

I hope this will help those who might be like me, sitting there with a puzzled look, trying to figure out where that darned sear spring is supposed to go.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Some additional points critical to operating the Carleton pistol.
1) bore out the nipple... the factory nipple features a flash hole that's waaaay too small to get the flame from the cap to the powder
2) the barrel of the Carleton features a very under-bore powder chamber - while the bore is .36, that powder chamber is only about .22 in diameter. This is of CRITICAL importance as failure to clean this powder chamber will result in a whole bunch of bad things down the road. You HAVE to get this powder chamber clean.
3) I have had several "Did Not Start" cases in matches because I could not get the flame path fully cleaned out. I've found snapping some CCI No.11 Magnum caps helps get that flame path cleared out.
4) When snapping caps before loading for the first time, insert a patch into the barrel so that it obstructs the bore yet projects from the bore. A successful snap of the cap will eject the patch from the bore - this is a good test that should "pass" before you pour in the first powder.

 

[Pistolero_Libre]

Yet another update which I hope Carleton Underhammer owners will find helpful...
My pistol has been plagued by failures to get that first shot ignited, resulting in several "Did Not Start" notes against my name at matches. Ugh, frustrating!

The issue with the pistol is that its flame path from nipple to powder is long and convoluted and very difficult to clean, and even more difficult to get clean of preservative/rust preventative oils prior to heading off to a range session.
Pedersoli suggested removing the drum. They provided no guidance in how to do so. I had tried removing the drum from mine in 2012 and several times since and could never get it to budge.
One of Pedersoli's USA service reps came up with a means of fastening the drum in a vise then using the barrel as the lever to unthread the drum. This works like a charm - thanks, Lee Shaver!

Once you have the drum out you'll see how any preservative can lodge in the drum and oil-soak your first load of powder, resulting in a "no bang" situation.

Pedersoli's Owner's Manual is very short on meaningful information. It should be updated to reflect that drum removal is the only way to fully clean this pistol.

I just got the drum out of mine last night so I'll report back after my next range session, which I expect will provide flawless performance.