Herc and Alliant 2400 in .357

[mec]

There is considerable talk that the new Alliant 2400 is "hotter" than some of the older lots of Hercules 2400. and even that more recent lots of Hercules 2400 is hotter than the original powder. This particular can was kept in a temperature controled environment since the 1970s. The revolver used was a 6" GP100 with temperature at 45 degrees F.

The measure throws 14.2 Herc 2400 when set for 14 grains of Alliant. it is unknown if this is because of differences in original manufacture or a result of age. In any case, I clocked 12 round strings with 14.0 of both powders and 14.2 of the Hercules.

 

[Quantrill]

Mec,
Thanks for the great comparisons of both the .357 and .44 magnums using the Hercules vs. the Alliant. What I am getting out of this is that, despite the commonly held belief to the contrary, Unique and 2400 are quite similiar regardless of who manufactures it. Alliant has often stated that in their advertising and I often wondered about it. I am still working from the Hercules powders but will soon switch to the Alliant powders soon. You have done me and the others who use Unique and 2400 as medium and magnum propellents a large favor. Quantrill

 

[mec]

By the way, the gun above was a 6" .357 GP100

I'm not sure the information can be generalized very far-a different can of powder and different components would make at least some difference. I also suspect that different people will get different opinions from the data- thats why I posted all the individual velocities. People can play around with the numbers if they like.

The Hercules powder was kept indoors out of the heat but had been opened. The old punch open tops don't seal particularly well. There may be somebody out there who knows whether 2400 would be likely to change over time given those conditions. One of the old speer handbooks said that they had dug up some Unique (or Laughlin and Rand Infallable) from a ware house where it had sat since the 1890s and performance was equivalent to the powder used during the mid 1960s.

In any case, it was interesting and kept me off the streets for a couple of days.
Thanks

 

[JohnK]

The Hercules powder was kept indoors out of the heat but had been opened. The old punch open tops don't seal particularly well. There may be somebody out there who knows whether 2400 would be likely to change over time given those conditions.

Which leads to the question: assuming the powder did change, is it likely to become more or less potent, that is will the burn rate increase or decrease? I have no idea, without a chemical background it would be hard to make a guess, I could guess at reasons why it might go either direction.

 

[mec]

It's heavier than the new stuff. So maybe it sucked in some water from the atmosphere- and maybe it was made that way to begin with.

Just to guess, since the extreme spreads etc are fairly close, it doens't appear that the stuff has deteriorated in any important way.
I guess it could get kind of interesting if the stuff got more potent over time. That would be kind of bad. But on those occasions when Ive gotten factory loads that have gone bad , what i got was wild velocity spreads, hangfires and wiered looking sparks flying out the barrel.

We can say anything we want about it until Professor Peabody fires up the Wayback machine and gets us a fresh can.

 

[Grump]

I just compared unopened cans of DuPont IMR 4064 from about 15 years ago, with the IMR brand 4064 which I bought six months ago. The older DuPont powder was a tad denser and required a smidge of adjustment on the powder measure to throw the same weight.

The Chrono will probably come out Saturday (if there's no rain!) for the side-by-side velocity comparisons.

Neither 4064 nor WC 846 have changed weight on me when left in the scale for 1-3 weeks, in both low and high-humidity weather. Another powder did increase weight in rainy weather by something like .3 grains for an 8.whatever grain charge, but I've forgotten the details other than the powder did NOT go light another time when humidity was below 20 percent...

 

[grendelbane]

The differences between old and new powder are interesting. I would appreciate some information on how much difference to expect between two different lots of the same powder, of approximately the same age, stored under the same conditions. Lot to lot variation would explain much of the difference noted between today's powder, and the powder that they would not sell me when I was 4 years old.

Just another reason not to load maximum charges. What is safe with lot 123xyz may just go over the edge with 456abc.

I have also noticed that cartridges weigh substantially more now than they did a quarter of a century ago. Or, at least it seems that way when carrying them to the range.